Martin Short
Most posts I write get three comments. Women vs Short Guys: Dating’s Fiercest Battleground, my daring exploration of the dark world that is tiny dude daters, has received sixty-five. It’s been republished by at least five other outlets and been read by twice as many people as anything I’ve ever posted. Including the detective fiction starring my cat, Inspector Whiskerton, that went up briefly in the bleak hours following Valentine’s Day, 2010. So clearly, people are fascinated by the plight of single short guys, and I just had to revisit the topic.
Easily some of the craziest things you guys have said to me were a result of this article. Here’s ROSA, a woman who is, herself, short, and might therefore have some sympathy for similar men. Turns out, no.
I am sick and tired of short men approaching me thinking that because I’m a short girl, I like short guys. I HATE SHORT GUYS! Just because I’m short doesn’t mean I don’t prefer the tall, dark, and handsome guys like the rest of us women. I really wish all men shorter than 6’2″ should be rounded up and shot.
Rounded up and shot, folks. Rounded. Up. And. Shot. Which is a practical enough suggestion, but where would we find all the shoeboxes to bury them in? ROSA, however, was not finished.
Us women should hold dating sites accountable and demand that they add fraud protection to stop short men from lying about their height. ANY man under 6’1″ IS NOT a compatible match for me. Men who lie about their height or try to conceal their height with elevator [shoes] should be arrested for fraud!
Is Rosa insane? Of course she is. But nearly every women I’ve heard from agrees with her general assessment. Short guys aren’t just unappealing, they’re maddeningly unappealing. They’re like the Tea Party of the dating universe: it’s not that you dislike them, it’s that you can’t understand how they don’t dislike themselves. Like their size is somehow an insult. It’s all, frankly, a little disturbing. And it’s getting some short guys down. (Pun intended.) Here’s a tall guy so screwed up that he thinks he’s actually short…
As an average height guy, 5’11”, I can pretty much get away with dating most girls who insist on just being taller than them. What I can’t get over is my own Napoleon complex, because my dad is 6’3”, my brother 6’4”, my best friend 6’7” and 3/5 of my close friends over 6’3”. I am a short stack wherever I go, and it has warped my psyche.
"Told you I was taller than this chair!"
This is what we’ve become, people. A 5’11″ guy with a Napolean complex. Do you know how pissed Napolean would be? People almost six feet tall bitching about their height? He’d smack this guy right in the face. After climbing up on a stool, of course. Or at least a couple of phone books. He continues…
I’m fit, not ugly, have a thick head of hair, and a good job, but my height insecurities make me only message girls 5’4” and shorter so that there is no way in heels they are taller than me.
Call it what you will, but I wouldn’t wish my future child to be anything less than 6’3”.
I will tell you something now that is not at all funny and is certainly not a joke. Short men have emailed me and talked about committing suicide. Because of their height. BECAUSE OF THEIR FUCKING HEIGHT. That is not cool, ladies. To feel disregarded because of something you have no power to change and did nothing to create, I’m sure that is all kinds of awful – and what bitter part of my heart remains goes out to these guys. But I shouldn’t just be speaking to the ladies, because we all do this. Men have their own checklist of traits that we will unfairly deem sacrosanct. As always seems to happen, men quickly turned on the larger ladies.
[Women] should be asked to list their weight… A woman’s height/weight ratio really does give a sense of her body type and degree of fitness (waist size would help too)…
Just because you played JV basketball in high school does not make you athletic and toned…
[For women] 30 pounds overweight seems to be the new “average” now…
A short stack
And that’s the stuff I didn’t delete immediately. You would be amazed at how many times the word “fatties” appears in the trashed comments of this blog. But it doesn’t stop there. I mentioned short men, and everyone else’s insecurities came calling. Tall men worrying they’re short, average breasted women worrying they’re small, people in wheelchairs worrying they’re weird, folks with abnormalities so rare they won’t even mention them online. And everybody feels bad about it. Why? Because someone sometime somewhere made it clear that they were a problem that need to be solved. Which brings me to my favorite of all the comments I received on Women vs. Short Guys. From that great sage, Anonymous:
Now I know why these people are 30 and still single.
We’re all fucked up. That’s why we’re Internet dating. Sure, we work too much, and sure we’re tired of meeting people in bars, and sure we’re searching for someone very particular – but let’s be honest, if we Internet daters were such prizes, chances are we wouldn’t be Internet dating to begin with, right? So why would we let other Internet daters, other members of this wackjob fraternity, tell us that we’re not enough? We’re too short or we’re too fat or we’re too willing to post stories about our cats solving supernatural crimes in turn of the century London, England? Guess what, chances are, they’re short too. Or they’re angry. Or they pee a little every time they sneeze. They’re other thirty-something daters — they’re fuck-ups too! An Internet dater tells you short? So what. They probably fart in their sleep. Or pick their teeth with business cards. Or ask their cleaning lady if it’s OK if they call her “Mother.” We’re all, as Anonymous said, 30 and single. So who the hell are we to talk shit?
Now get out there and meet somebody awesome.
And if you’re under six feet tall, have some decency and buy a good pair of lifts. You’re never gonna meet anyone looking like a freak.
I think all this anger would diminish a little if people would just stop fucking lying on their online dating profiles. If you’re not actually 5’9″, don’t say that you are, and if you’re not actually athletic, don’t say that you are. Do not wear hats that cover up a receding hairline in all pictures and do not take angle-shots of your face to make it look skinner. Do not claim to love camping if you actually mean you love Glamping, and do not say you’re open-minded if you actually think men are superior to women or that all guys are cheaters deep down inside.
Just.Tell.The.Goddamn.TRUTH
This seems like the hardest thing in the world for some people and I’m not sure why. I mean, the thing with online dating is that SOMEDAY you will meet in person, and all lies will be found out. And it will be awkward. So just be the opposite of all our politicians and tell the truth. Dear god.
Has it ever ocurred to you, that maybe they lie because it’s frigging impossible to ever meet anybody online when a guy’s height is 5’3 ? Not someday, not ever…
And now look at it this way -we lie about height=we’re untrustworthy dirty little liars. We don’t lie about height =we get like 0 views=we’re undesirable.
With all due respect, most guys have difficulty getting views/responses online, regardless of their height.
Also, I’m unfamiliar with match, but it was not easy to see the height of an individual without visiting their profile on the sites I’m familiar with (okcupid/PoF). That means that women can only know the height of a dude if they go to his profile or he’s enough of a douche to mention how tall he is in one of his messages.
If match works similarly, then it would be highly unlikely for women to know how tall a dude is without viewing their profile. Whoops.
Actually all profiles list your height right on top of the profile. Some sites will list this info when you communicate with another member. Women (as well as most others) look at the profile and women only need to look at the top of the profile to see our hight we claim to be. If they are looking for a guy 5’11″ and taller, they immediatly delete your response except the one woman who misread my hight as 5’11″ when it clearly was printed as 5’1″ but she thought this must be a reprint since in her own words “no guys are that short.” Quite an experience! I was going to joke that I live in a secret base for UFO aliens and managed to escape but was pissed when she accused me of misrepresenting my height and asked “How do you people continue to reproduce?” she even said that our genes should have been eliminated thousands of years ago. I still cannot believe she would assume my height was a misprint and accuse me of lying when it was she who assumed I mean’t 5’11″, not 5’1″ because “men that short don’t exist”. I can’t help it if she was dumb enough to assume my height was a misprint since she didn’t know men as short as 5’1″ do exist.
Obviously, the short guy thing is insane. I understand why women wouldn’t find a guy attractive if he is short but c’mon, ladies! Ease off insulting them. We get it. “Be taller.” We will work on it. I don’t fault you for your feelings of attraction but keep your mouth shut about it.
Same goes for guys. Anyone who says the word “fatty” shouldn’t be allowed to date anymore. Period. Again, you can be attracted or unattracted to whomever you want but shut the hell up about it.
If someone expresses interest in you, either online or in person, show them a little respect. They just complimented you. They put themselves on the line with the intention of flattering you. So don’t be a jerk. Don’t find them attractive? Fine. Thank them and move on.
Finally, “now I know why these people are 30 and still single?” Sorry, Charlotte Bronte, I didn’t realize we all had to be wed and bed by 16. Maybe some 30 year olds (and, gasp, older!) have high standards. Maybe being blandly self-assured someone will sleep with us isn’t our highest priority. Maybe some people have taken a look at our society’s divorce rate and ever-changing demographics and consciously decided to postpone settling down until it makes sense for them.
We are not all landed gentry and old maids. We are just doing our best to find someone who we love and loves us in return. That’s a damn hard task and anyone who EVER achieves it should be thankful they beat the odds.
Wait, are you not landed gentry? This site is intended only for landed gentry. Please go now.
Finally, a site trying to keep out the riff raff. I doff my top hat to you good sir. More importantly though, how do we get to hear the harrowing adventures of Inspector Whiskerton?
My cat has applied for her own blog, but as of yet WordPress is refusing. Unfortunately Whiskerton is colored with more than a bit of racial insensitivity, which is just her rhetorical style.
I LOVE so many things about your comment, but the Charlotte Bronte made my night. Well typed, sgt. slaughter, well typed indeed!
I wonder who has a harder time of it – short guys or overweight girls. I’ve known some awesome, beautiful large ladies over the years, but as an average sized guy I generally prefer girls smaller than me. Based on who’s in abundance on dating sites, it appears most guys share my preferences. A cool, beautiful girl is going to attract men no matter what size she is, but I’ve been on those dating sites – there’s a lot of unattractive women on there, and the sad fact is most of them either identify is “curvy/a little extra” or their pictures tell me. I’m just curious how it compares to the short guy thing. A short guy who’s particularly charming, handsome or successful can overcome it – is it the same with women?
I think cool people find cool people, regardless of their physical specifics. The thing that makes me think it could be worse for short guys is that they are plenty of men who prefer larger women. They look for it specifically. But I’ve never heard a female ever say the words, “you know what REALLY turns me on? When a guy is shorter than me. Makes me sooooo hot.”
It’s worse for sub-5’10″ guys for one very simple reason: If overweight women wanted to not be overweight, they can simply lose weight. Well, not simply–changing a lifetime of eating and exercise habits isn’t trivial, and it’s often connected to emotional or psychological issues to boot–but if they really wanted to, they could. They have the option.
Sub-5’10″ guys, though, can’t just go to the doctor and say “hey, bolt in a couple of aftermarket femurs, and while you’re in there, longer tibias and fibias would be good.”
Obviously you haven’t heard of Cosmetic Leg Lengthening. http://www.betzinstitute.com/ and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-rock-positano/courting-controversy-cosm_b_74664.html for more information.
To be honest with you elizabeth, I’m not willing to pay thousands on a painful operation for cosmetic reasons. Why should men or women have surgery for something that isn’t life threatening and not covered by health insurance for this reason? It’s sad when men and women have to modify the body that came naturally in order to be considered dateworthy.
Am I the only girl out there who doesn’t mind shorter guys? I’m 5’4″ and most of the guys I’ve dated have been between 5’6″ and 5’8″. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t exactly aim for shorter guys, but it just seems to end up that way. I like wearing heels but don’t like being taller than my guy, so I’ve actually gone entire months without wearing high shoes. Imagine that! Sacrificing for love…
Anyway, I’m very awkward with tall guys. I don’t like feeling like a little girl when they look down at me. Not to mention, everything else is weird physically. A guy shouldn’t have to bend in half to kiss me. As a last anecdote, I danced with a guy who was 6’8″ (!!!) at a bar last week, and I’m pretty sure I grinded with his knees…
5’6″ – 5’8″ is short? I’d give anything to be in this range. No women exist who will date a guy like me who is only 5’1″. I don’t mind dating taller women, and overweight women but all women hate short men, especially ones like me. We’re just the unlucky men who are unloved. We wish we could get dates but women (including short women) will not consider us. I love when a lady wears high heels even if it makes her taller than me, they look sexy!
Amen, brother.
I exist! I’m dating a guy I’d peg to be about 5’1″/5’2″ (he claims taller, but I’m 5’5″ and he’s def a few inches shorter than me.)
I’ve dated all over the height spectrum too (tallest 6’5″) and I’ve fucked a bunch of guys, and I love my guy to death and wouldn’t change a thing about him! <3 Actually, I found this page searching for other women who like short men lol!
I'm secure with my physical appearance, and bisexual, so hooking up with people smaller than me is no biggie since quite a few girls I get with are smaller than me. Also, we met in person, not online. My advice to short guys would be to go for open minded, adventurous girls who already know they're hot! You may find fewer people willing to date you, but those who will are probably more awesome anyway! (Ok, I'm biased!) Also, bi girls may be more open minded since most girls sleeping with girls are out of luck if they have a 6 foot min. Good luck!!!
I gotta weigh in here. And not at ALL in the way that I thought I would have when I first read the original article.
I swear I peed my pants when I first read it, mostly because it’s masterfully written and fluids flowed from every part of me as I gasped for breath between guffaws. However, also because it was so true, at that point in my somewhat young Match.com experience, when I had been burned by not one, but FOUR alleged 5’9”ers who showed up at first “meetings” as 5’5”ers. It was I who began to doubt my ability to discern whether a guy was gonna be shorter than me or not. In fact, this summer I took the opportunity to have my children gauge, on the baby giraffe measuring stick at the zoo, if 5’9” could POSSIBLY be shorter than my very average 5’5”. I thought I was going friggin’ nuts. It’s a mind F when a Matchguy maintains that he’s 5’9”, fo sho, and I end up looking down at him (literally… oh yeah, and then figuratively…) upon first meet.
Here’s the deal. My very first bf was about 5’8”. And that was super great. I didn’t care, nor did I ever care, to date tall guys. I didn’t even know guys 6’2” EXISTED until a couple years ago. I thought the male max was like 6’0”. Dad, bro, and ex-husband were all 6’. Which is only 3” more than first BF! Who cares. I don’t need a tall guy. But it is very true that I need a taller-than-me guy. To me, it’s just comforting, and possibly a bit of a protection thing. Law of the jungle.
The issue is the deception. It’s disrespectful. And it’s embarrassing when you’re meeting a stranger for the first time and, based on a couple possibly outdated pictures and his estimation of stature, you’re trying to figure out if it’s him or not. So at the very least I can keep my chin up as I peer around the room and try to find my date. But when he finally finds me, and I tower over him in my 1.5” heels, I’m already a little hacked off. Do the math. But what these guys count on, is that they already know from emailing, texting and phone calling, is that I’m the nicest friggin girl in town and I’m never gonna call him on the lie. He’s right. But he blew it. Because trust just left the building.
Listen. I’ve been scolded by the less-tall guys in emails because I had a minimum height listed as 5’10”. Well, it didn’t start out like that. I changed it 5’10” to allow for 4 inches of lying.
Right now I’m very happy with new Match guy who is 5’8”. And he is 5’8”. And that’s alright by me. Because he’s a truthful 5’8” and not a fibbing five-five.
What I’ve learned is that most often guys, to their credit, do not give a good goddamn if a women is taller than they are. That is a new discovery and it is, quite frankly, very cool. HOWEVER… I had NO idea that short women wanted 6’3” guys. I’m 48 years old. I’ve been around the block. (In a good way!). All I want is to not be the biggest body in the bed. I assumed that girls 5’0” would be happy with anybody taller than 5’0”. But no? Princess 5’0” wants a 6 footer and nothing else shall do? WTF is that? Snot. Now I’m really feeling for these guys. I have a lot of short girlfriends and I figured that based on that, there was definitely a market for the 5’6’ and below. I am beside myself right now realizing what bitches these bitches can be. And to dis and call names? Well there is a whole catalog of crap that women can do to give nice women a bad name. I had no idea we had add this to the table of contents. Now I know where these guys are coming from and hopefully they’ll realize there are reasons (above!) for profile height preferences, but women who will demean a person for a physical characteristic are not worth their energy anyway. Same for you assclowns who would call a girl “fatty”. I haven’t heard that word since the Little Rascals. Dating is ridiculous because people like THAT are in the pool!
change that to 4″ taller than first BF ooops typo! Sorry.
I got an email from a guy with, literally, 5 paragraphs of qualifications you had to meet in order to talk to him. The usual was included, of course… had to be under 5’3, not be a “disgusting fatty…or big boned, or anything but thin”, had to have a certain hair color, blah blah blah. I’m 5’9, I’m not skinny minny, I have an ass and thanks to my country style-part Cherokee Indian ways, I have big bones. Defined bones, I suppose. No one in my family is short and barbie-like. I’m actually the shortest female.. we’re Amazons, as I like to gently call us. But damn we’re uniquely awesome. Anyways, the only qualification I met on his important list was my haircolor. And the only thing I was told was something semi sexual, which.. just don’t do that! Men need to be pistol whipped for that when they do that shit. Either way, I always at least write a thank you, regardless of my interest. Only because they took time out to compliment me. Or if they’re like said Guy above I clearly state my annoyance and tell them to take a hike. So, seeing a new message, prior to reading it, I wanted to check the profile out. A thousand qualifications later, I checked his picture out. And I almost died laughing. Someone of his physical looks could really judge others for theirs? Give me a break.
I emailed to say I don’t exceed his qualifications, and from that haven’t heard back from him. I wasn’t an exception to his preferences, I was someone to attempt to talk dirty to. That’s it. Now, if he’d written to get to know me…well, no, because he’s still a douche from what he portrays himself to be. Its what I can’t understand. Why have such an enormous list of preferences when you yourself aren’t all that and a bag of chips? Why say you, “don’t want any uglies” when you yourself… well, my point is made. What happen to finding the inner beauty? Unfortunately, I fear my generation is worse than others.
Also, honesty about height is vital. Only because, while it can be an insecurity, lying about it only makes matters worse. I’m perfectly fine dating someone shorter than me. But when I’m lied to about it, that turns me off. Why? Because that means your insecurity is off the wall, which means your confidence level is shot, which means I know you (in general) wouldn’t be able to date me without feeling like shit for having to look up at me. I went on a date with someone who claimed to be 5’8. He turned out to be 5’3. Really? Like i wouldnt notice the 5 inch difference? We never dated again. Bottom line: Who cares? We’re all human. Love doesn’t last because you’re still hot with awesome ABS and perky boobs at 70.
The height thing doesn’t really bother me. I’m 5’5″, but for 3 years I worked in an office with 10 men, and not one of them was taller than 5’9″. The owner of the company was actually the same height as me and two of the men were shorter. I never even really noticed it, except on the day I wore these new platform heels that made me taller than everyone but the 5’9″ guy. That was a little awkward, but I just didn’t wear those shoes very often; I like flats better anyway.
The only time the height thing ever bothered me was once when I met a guy from online and he was only 5’1″. I’ll admit that wierded me out a bit because he was so much shorter than me, but as far as this blog entry goes, I think that’s more the exception than the rule.
I kind of like short guys. I really don’t get what other girls are freaking out about. When I’m attracted to a guy, height factors in at an importance of zero per cent- it doesn’t even register. And it often happens that the guys I like are about my height (5’6). Do not give a shit if I’m taller than them in heels.
I actually find dating tall guys kind of annoying. I always fall over when I have to reach up so high on my tip toes to kiss them. Not great with balance. And when we’re holding hands my arm has to bend at a weird angle to accommodate for how much higher up they are than me. It’s dumb.
LOVE your blog. A clever guy that loves cats is pretty much my dream man. Too bad you’re kind of tall.
Sandy, as far as I know, you’re the only person on the face of the earth who holds any of your opinions. Which means you rule!
Not the only one! Chiming in as a 6′ girl in love with a 5’8 guy…not going to say it wasn’t a challenge, but in the end, if you’re in love enough and can get past your caveman brain making irrational demands on potential partners, you get over it. I’m glad I did. He’s the best guy in the world. The biggest thing in the end is that it requires a lot of confidence on the part of both of you to be able to ignore the obnoxious comments and rude stares.
Interesting when women say short -they usually mean 5’6-5’7. But what about 5’5 and under ?
I feel for you Roman and can relate. Us men shorter than 5’5″ are screwed. Some women don’t think men shorter than 5’5″ don’t even exist and the ones who do know there are sub 5’5″ men won’t consider dating someone so short.
You are the definition of a smart and secure women.
The women who are concern with guys being taller, or having a minimum height, are not women who I would want to be with. Insecure, and frankly, not very smart if they buy into to whole protection thing (seriously, what do you need to be protected from, bears? Women are mostly attacked when they’re alone, and if your the type to get into fights, then that’s your own damn fault). If that is what they’re going to be picky about in the beginning, then I hate to think about what it would be like 5, 10, 20 years down the road. Divorce? Then whine about how the ex was a sleazebag and how dating is hard.
Now, I’m 5’3. It is what is. If a girl is taller than me, either barefoot or in heels, great. If
she’s shorter than me, great. I can move more gracefully (everyone tells me I need to give their spouses or partners dance lessons) on the dance floor at wedding, have a wicked personality and sense of humor, good character, and am putting together a rather successful, driven professional life–which will hopefully give enough financial freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want, and time.
Sandy baby what are you doing next saturday, lol-my name is Nick -you are
the coolest chick around and bydaway I am 5’8 and 3/4 inches and I list myself as 5’9” I have to round it off to the highest inch but can’t help wondering that ladies think I am actually 5’5 or 5’6”
P.S. I love cats -cheers
Awww, poor babies. You’re being discriminated against because of YOUR LOOKS.
Yeah. Like that hasn’t been happenig to women by men for thousands of years. Get over it. Women have physical attractiveness standards too. Stop making heros or martyrs of short men.
A short man CAN overcome his height with the following features:
1) DO NOT put on a beer gut that hangs over your belt buckle. Short is one thing. Short AND fat is another. Sorry. Why? It screams you don’t respect yourself. Why would you respect us?
2) DO have proper manners. What are proper manners? Watching Cary Grant for several weeks MIGHT, just MIGHT, clue you in. Until you have manners indivisible from a man like that, you don’t have good manners. For example, your foul mouth, your gawking at other women while on a date, your failure to IMMEDIATELY take the check on a date AND graciously resist a woman’s POLITE offer to ‘go dutch’, marks you as a man with no manners whatsoever. You will die alone, as is only fitting.
3) Do NOT spend the first several minutes of a date blabbering endlessly abour yourself, your worries, and your favorite damn sports teams. You are ASSUMING things about the woman by doing so which will put DOA with her. That polite smile we wear is us thinking about that male model we saw in a magazine the other day and how a PICTURE is better than you are in real life.
4) Try ASKING YOUR DATE ABOUT HERSELF. But, again, MIND YOUR MANNERS. You do NOT have a right to her personal life story except as she chooses to reveal over time. Do NOT ask personal questions like,”Why did your last relationship end?” or “Do you have any illnesses?”. If you are dating simply to torture people, you’re a ZERO with a capitol ‘Z’. You’re a LOSER buddy, period. You may impress your booger eating, fart smelling friends with that kind of attitude, but that means you care more about what OTHER MEN THINK than you do a woman. Which is one of the key features of homosexual men: They like to impress other men. That being the case, it’s not a woman you should be dating. It’s your buddy Early you should be dating.
5) ‘Short’ in the male species kicks in a primal reaction in most women ( not all ) that says,”He is built to serve other males.” Google it. Short men were mostly ones ( Napolean had contacts YOU do NOT have ) relegated to the service of strong, influential families, not women. What this means is you need to come off as masculine as possible. That does NOT mean ‘steven segal masculine’ or ‘clint eastwood masculine’. It means you don’t talk with a lisp, walk with your head down, walk with your hands in your pockets, have limp wrists, or stand like a 5 year old boy about to get his butt spanked by his Mommy. It’s also why ‘short + fat’ is a real mental killer in women, visually speaking. You can get past it, but you have better have REALLY GOOD manners.
Reference some executive social training to get some help with your personas. Otherwise, just accept that you’re either probably going to go gay, be a monk, or wind up a bitter, woman hating old fat guy. Uh, the world’s already full of those so you aren’t exactly going to stand out from the herd.
Which is the final point: Women notice men who stand out. A lack of stature does go against you, but it’s NOT the deal breaker some of you think it is or the author here tries to spin it.
Do NOT take the advice of other bitter males. They do NOT want you to succeed with women, they do NOT want you to be happier than they are, and misery loves company. Spend your free time and let them program your attitude at your own risk. But at least realize what’s going on with them and why they want you around, versus away from them.
Also, if you’re a drunk…forget it. Besides ‘fat’, if you add ‘drunk’ to short you just become so incredibly UGLY to women that you might as well be obsese and have Bojangles biscuit stains on your dirty sweatshirt.
If you want to meet women, go where women go. Not men. You’d think this would be a no-brainer, but it always amazes me how many men say they can’t find a woman but spend nearly 95% of their free time in the company of mostly other men. You are writing your own end doing that.
Also, you should not cling to old stereotypes about women that you get from WW2 movies. Those were never right. Women DO want a man with a job and a man who is confident. Women do NOT want a bully, a lone drifter, a drunk, a domineering, or bossy men in their lives.
And remember…it’s NOT the female bird that does the dances and displays of beauty. It’s the male who does that. And they better do it well or they don’t rate as mates.
Also, have a moderate opinion of yourself. If you don’t look like Brad Pitt, don’t go around trying to get women who are simply out of your league. If you get a date with one, odds are VERY good she’s just bored or pities you. I’m not trying to be cruel, but that’s generally the case. You would do better to look in the mirror and accept that you have average looks in the face, may need to lose weight, and are short. Add ‘bald’ or ‘combover’ to that and you just are not going to be close to the male ideal, physically. You can let that bum you out or you can just do the best you can with what you have. Anything less is a diservice first to yourself, and then to any poor woman who agrees to date you.
And when she doesn’t a repeat date….come back to this post and ask yourself if you paid any attention to it.
1) Body fat ratio of 11% (at 53 yo, that put’s me in the top 1%).
2) Judith Martin is my patron saint.
3) Consular / Professional Interviewer. (i.e., used to listening)
4) See #3
5) Seek professional help (but not me, you’re too much of a nut case).
Shelly,
I sense a tone of bitterness in your email, and I can’t quite pinpoint why. I’m a short guy at about 5’4 and definitely understand how women overlook me only because of my height. I’ve been told by many people all of my life that I have a good looking face, but I’m short. To frustrate me even more, I’m in good shape, have my hair, am healthy, educated and look younger than my years.
My question is who cares if I’m short? Isn’t this similar to a woman with a pretty face who has small breasts? Isn’t a short woman’s desire for a tall man just as shallow as a man’s desire to date a woman with big boobs? I’d say, absolutely! The comparison to fat women doesn’t fit the bill in my opinion, at least for a guy like me. What’s worse is that I cannot understand at all why a woman my height or shorter would go for a guy who is not as good looking as me just because he’s taller. This drives me nuts! I’ve seen this many times where a good looking girl will date or marry a funny looking fat guy just because he’s tall!
I’ve been out with some attractive women, but they’re all foreign. I think some of this boils down to what’s “normal” for a particular culture. With that in mind, I’ve thought about moving to another country with shorter people many times. It’s sad that a guy like me with so many good attributes would even consider moving away, but hey maybe I’d be better off. Besides, the women are skinnier in many other parts of the world….
I just have to comment. Let’s say a tall, dark, and handsome guy had a beer belly hanging below his belt, has poor manners, talks about nothing but his favorite sports team, and is a total jerk would you still date him over a shorter guy who had all these qualities. I’ve actually avoided the more attractive women realizing they are out of my league but even the not so attractive women are only looking for tall men and are willing to spend their entire life single searching rather than date a short guy who finds them interesting. Then they complain how no guys are willing to go out with them forgetting about the short guy who was interested and willing to date her.
I have been turned down by woman on the sole reason of being short.. I don’t turn woman down because of things I find unattractive. I give them a chance regardless. Even though I find a large woman unattractive I just won’t blow them off and disrespect them. A lotta short guys usually hit the gym because they are so self conscious. I did just that and am in really good shape I worked my ass off for an 8 pac and I guess it helps be feel better about myself but than I have to deal with watching girls blowing me off to date assholes who just mistreat them. It sucks when you know something you have no control over turns off woman. I don’t lie about my height, and that’s why girls never even give me a chance in the first place. I’m nice, well mannered, and educated but woman just say no thanks your too short. Like woman think they have to look nice for us but really, the more make up and superficial a woman is the more repulsive she gets. I just want to meet someone who accepts me for I am. Shares my love for music and poetry. But no, as soon as they see I’m short they don’t even want to talk to me. So it’s no wonder us short guys get so upset.
5’6″ woman checking in…I’ll happily date a short guy. Not sure if this may be related, I was a former “fatty” and men treated me like dirt. I haven’t forgotten that.
I also will not be ashamed of internet dating in my thirties or be convinced it means there is something fundamentally wrong with me. I’ve had three opportunities to do the marriage/kids thing and it didn’t feel like the right thing to do any of those times. It would have been not only a disservice to me, but to the guy as well.
But…the big difference is what you are in control of, verses what you can’t change. Frankly, if you don’t like short people; its no different (to me) than saying you don’t like Black people, or Asian, or Indian, or whatever. Saying you don’t date overweight or obese people is like saying you don’t date arrogant assholes.
Face it, some people are assholes because of the way they are brought up, or some people are arrogant because they really don’t have any self esteem…however, with effort and perhaps consoling, they can learn NOT to be that way… You can’t unlearn Black, you can’t unlearn short. People who ‘discriminate’ against short people, don’t like, or “just don’t find them attractive” are basically the same as racists. Justify all you want…but there you are.
I don’t want to start a controvery but being overweight isn’t necessarily a choice. Some overweight people have a health problem or are genitically overweight. There are woman out there who argue that short men “chose to be short”! For example, a woman who has attacked me online in a blog told me that men who end up short as adults didn’t take care of their health and “ate nothing but junk food or smoked pot or used other drugs”. If that were the case, I wouldn’t be 5’2″! I may have consumed candy but I changed my diet thinking I wasn’t getting enough calcium and other nutrients and never smoked pot or used other drugs.
I know. That has SO much to do with the topic of how dating is problematic for short men.
Emjay…i have a feeling you’re going to be ‘internet dating’ for a long time. But hey, you’re a sassy, confident kinda gal who’s not taking shit from anyone and they better know it.
. Fearsome baby, fearsome!
Not sure, but what I’m hearing is that so long as a person gets at least 3 offers for marriage/kids, then they can wear their internet dating pins super-proud. So if someone gets 22 offers ( does it matter if the person is sober or not? ), then THEY can probably be Uber-Alles Proud Internet Dater.
Fantastique!
Hank, I think you misunderstood my post or I didn’t make it more clear…my point was that no one who does “internet dating” should be ashamed of it and I used my own experience as an example. Internet dating doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you or me or anyone. If I’m doing this for awhile, it’s cool with me…I don’t want kids, there’s no hurry for anything, and I don’t ever want to think I “settled” with someone not right for me.
(As a semi-interesting side note, none of the marriage-kids situations arose from internet dating.)
I always wonder, If every woman -who posted that she WILL NEVER EVER date someone below a certain height even realizes how BAD she makes somebody feel on the other side of the screen? Can you imagine what it would feel like if 99 % of the men said I WILL NEVER DATE YOU, BECAUSE OF SOMETHING YOU COULDN’T CONTROL ? CAN YOU ? Or wait, you women probably think we have NO FEELINGS AT ALL.. What amazes me is that -you don’t even try to be understanding that IT”S NOT OUR FUCKING FAULT. You don’t even show any sympathy, most of you are ruthless. Thank you very much, I’m about to commit suicide now. My life is fucked up enough as it is, and after discovering how undesirable I truly am, I can’t take it anymore..good bye..
Men do judge you on things you can’t control! I’m a tall women & men short or tall don’t have interest in tall girls! It is like being a short man something we can’t control. I have a good job, am educated, and often get looked out (when sitting down or driving). I have pretty dark hair and good skin (& big boobs haha), but men are not at all interested. Oh well… You’re all pretty nasty anyway :)
Hi Jessica.
From my experience, a lot of tall women have no use for short guys and some even hate it when a short guy is within speaking range. This is coming from a guy who’s 5’6 BTW. Are you honestly saying both short and tall men don’t have interest in you? I’ve heard that one many times over like a broken record. Self-righteous tall women lie about their true feelings of short guy dissension meanwhile speaking out loudly that they date guys of all sizes. Tall women who let a short guy down easy will say that his height is her problem even though he’s a perfect fit in many other ways. The high heels excuse is a close second but in most cases is the first in the line of deal breakers that tall women have against shorter men. Dating a taller guy to feel feminine and protected is the third excuse against short men but it’s often number 1 on the deal breaking chart. Short guys are useless based on this principal because to her, his size will never make her feel petite.
You are right about one thing. Both men and women judge each other at face and body value. I’d have to strongly argue that it’s the women who do most of the critiquing and discarding though. You are the fashion sex. Tall women fight with their shorter sisters for the tall guy’s attention, get mad when they lose out to the shorter woman and hate on the left over short guys that are interested. I see it happen all the time and the reasoning is simple. You are taught and programmed from a very early age that short men are inferior and “tall, dark and handsome” is the gold standard in men. I have a decent body with fairly cut abs (not as cut from my tournament youth), strong legs and a good looking face from what I’ve been told. My lack of height trumps any success with women because they don’t allow themselves to be stimulated by my mind and my personality. When women see height and only height, nothing else about the man matters to her unless his wallet has significant weight. I guess this also speaks loudly about the kind of women who seek men for their height and nothing else. Gold-diggers with no character, personality or self-sufficiency.
So, what do you honestly do if you see a guy that’s attractive to you, regardless if he’s shorter or taller? Do you say nothing, do nothing, be nothing and let another woman beat you to him? Have you ever made the first move to ask a man out on a date or is that totally out of the question because you’re too old fashioned. You still wait for him to make the first move?
I don’t know if I’d date a shorter man ( or a tall one). Honestly I’ve come to a point where I’ve always been on my own & don’t really know another way… Like I’ve said men have never approached me in all these years… In HS they approached me to tell me mean things. Since then I’ve had a few insults from them too. I get compliments from women (and sometimes insults), elderly men, and once had a carload of 16 year olds call me a MILF (but I wasn’t standing up). That the total of my experience so?
No I’d never approach a man. I don’t know if it’s being old fashioned. I think us tall girls never really learn to flirt, look sexy, smile, or read men. Girls learn that stuff when they are young. As a tall girl being ridiculed the best I was hoping for was to be ignored. If a man looks at me I assume it is with disgust? So I generally hope to not be looked at!
Hi Jessica.
Sorry to hear about your experiences with guys. Highschool can be a truly horrible time for short guys and tall girls. Everyone wants to fit in and make friends but if you exceed or fall short of the average height, you’re immediately stigmatized, but not always in a bad way. A 6’1 girl when I was in HS was a star basketball player AND considered by all the guys to be in the top five best looking. She still is very hot today! I remember wanting to ask her out but lost to another guy who had more guts to approach her. He was barely an inch taller than me and he got her. College and post secondary can be worse but I like to believe that young adults gain a certain level of maturity by the time they graduate from highschool and know better not to insult people based on something they can’t control. I think you and I are in the same boat because over the years I’ve learned to accept that my short stature is not favourable among the ladies, especially the taller ones. It’s been proven time and time again in western culture.
A word of advice for you. Don’t always assume that when a guy is checking you out, he’s looking at you with digust unless you’re actually hoping he’s looking at you with disgust. A guy checking you out could mean that he’s totally in awe of your height and your presence which sometimes leads to his feelings of intimidation. Furthermore, some short guys don’t go near taller women because of preconceived notions of rejection which is wrong. Everyone knows that tall women mostly favour equally tall or taller men and are quick to reject the shorter guy who dare tries to talk to her. If you don’t want to be looked at or if you are simply not interested in a person, don’t make eye contact. This is how I decide whether or not to approach a woman. The expression on her face, if and when she locks eyes with me is the clearest indication of whether she’s interested in talking to me or not.
Remember this, tall women can be just as sexy and beautiful as a short woman. Me personally, I find taller women more attractive than shorter women and I’ve felt this way for a long time. You as a 5’11 woman have the long legs that many short people wish for. Understand that tall women have a grace and elegance that are the stuff of dreams too. Maybe you enjoy the single life more than being in relationships, but do your best not to shut out a guy that’s checking you out next time. He just might want to get to know you. So, if there’s a remote chance that you like what you see in him, there’s nothing wrong with throwing a wink and a smile back his way. And if he doesn’t approach you, too bad for him.
Apollo,
Well thanks for the advice. I’m too many years past trying (imagine dating for the first time Inyour mid 30′s). Mmmmm awkward for sure!!!! I’m more fascinated with perception than changing my reality. Oh my advice some girls/women can’t make eye contact simply can’t. We’re broken and don’t work like that ( I think a lot of tall women & abuse victims etc. ) point is it has nothing to do with you sometimes? :) peace out!
I just realized this post today and wanted to say…You haven’t met a person like me then. I think tall women are generally much more attractive than women who are short.
I’m 5’6 and didn’t know about this until today. I guess it’s cause I never had trouble dating women regardless of height, nor have I ever been told I was “Too short” by any woman. Then again, I don’t do online dating. I found all my women by just going out. Whether it be volunteering for my community, going to art galleries or coffee shops, etc. It just happens.
Tallest I been with was 6’1, it didn’t bother me one bit. Even if she did wear high heels. It didn’t last long, even though I found her physically attractive…Her personality was not to my liking.
So yeah, tall women ARE sexy!
Matt, you are absolutely right. Tall women are totally sexy! I absolutely love confident, tall women who don’t judge me by how tall I stand. The tallest woman I’ve dated was a 6’1 beauty like you have, even though it was very brief. She left me for a 5’3 guy that she was involved with previously. That’s right! A taller woman left me for a guy even shorter LOL! Her heart was more with him and I wasn’t going to put her at fault for that or fight him for her attention. Yeah it kinda hurt, but I still appreciated her time and the fact that she was straight up with me. Honesty goes a long way rather than playing the disappearing/ex-communication act that a lot of women see nothing wrong with doing to guys. It’s a method of expressing disinterest in a person that has more to do with hurt than truth.
There are lots of tall women who can’t give a fully grown 5’6 guy like me a fraction of the respect they give to tall guys. As far as they are concerned, I don’t qualify as a MAN and never will. They’d sooner call me a half man or little boy and relegate me to a permanent state of puberty. Manliness goes hand in hand with height and weakness is associated with with being short according to these women. Frankly, it doesn’t bother me anymore despite most of them still hopelessly devoted to landing a tall guy. Women who hold these beliefs are the real headcases and they aren’t worth the time. It doesn’t matter how attractive they are or how tall they are.
Hey Jessica,
From my experience, there are two main reasons shorter guys tend not to go after taller women:
The first is that a lot of them get sucked into the same weird societal thing which says “it would be weird.” It’s become so expected that you can easily find dozens of articles talking about how Tom Cruise is shorter than Katy Holmes. It’s something that gets wired into a lot of people and is hard to fight against. I know this because I used to have that attitude a lot, which basically became cured when I was targeted by a woman 4 inches taller than me. What I figured out pretty quickly was that it’s one of the dumbest reasons ever to reject someone. It literally made NO difference to anything dating-wise, and since have dated several taller women.
The other issue is that even the shorter guys who don’t personally care about it just assume that taller women will have that attitude, and don’t bother trying. What might come off as aloofness or standoffishness might actually be closer to shyness or taking what appears to be the easier road.
I saw one of your other comments where you mentioned not wanting to make the first move (as the woman I mentioned above did), but there’s a big difference between actually making the move and being super-flirty so the guy knows you’re interested. There’s nothing unladylike about extra smiling and laughing at his dumb jokes, or doing the “subtle” arm touch thing that makes men’s hearts leap. The truth is most men are pretty dense when it comes to reading signals (you basically need to hand us a sign and smack upside the head), and that’s pretty much how all those women who are constantly “getting” hit on are doing it. In reality, women pretty much always make the first move. It just doesn’t look that way.
Also, for what it’s worth, I didn’t “seriously” start dating until my 30’s either for a variety of reasons (mostly from extreme shyness up to my mid- to late-20’s). You’re not the only one. And you’d be surprised how little even the people who seem to have it all worked out actually know about anything.
I’m a short guy, ‘heighting in’ at 5’5. I’ve got a naturally muscular build, and perhaps I set myself up for failure to begin with by really finding taller women (around 5’7 or 5’8) to be absolutely gorgeous. Truth is, I’m a legs man, and taller women tend to have (by default) longer legs.
Either way, that’s not really the point. I’ve never lied on an Internet dating site, and I’ve had a few serious relationships in my past – all of these women being taller than me. Never did they ever indicate that my height was an issue – in fact, I have never had it mentioned to me by any girl. Only men such as coworkers or friends have ever made jokes about my height. As a result, I’ve never even considered how important height is to most women until fairly recently.
I made best friends with a guy not too long ago, and our personalities are so similar it’s quite shocking. However, professionalism and appearance (of the things I can CONTROL) have always been important to me, so I’ve always been the better dressed of the two of us. Also, i tend to be the talkative, friendly one when we talk to women, while his large height and he – just stand there.
Within these few months – I’ve heard all too many times, ‘I think your friend is cute.’ All of the sudden I’ve realized that it was his additional 6 inches that did all of his talking for him. Now, I think he is a fantastic guy, but am I upset that he gets more dates because he’s six inches taller? Yes.
Recently I have started wearing lifts in my shoes, and what started as an ‘experiment’ has proven my suspicions. I get much more attention when I am ’5’8 than 5’5. Do I lie about it? No. I will tell anyone up front that I am wearing lifts, and oddly enough – I still get more attention from people KNOWING I am not the height they perceive, than I ever did embracing my shortness. I guess just standing eye level with girls rather than below them is enough to meet their ‘protective needs’ from a man.
So I firmly say, short men – wear lifts. From experience, it works. I wouldn’t hide it – the truth comes out. But as far as being able to meet a women’s needs for height, however superficial they may be, it helps. As well as the added confidence of height you will feel just being able to look into someone’s eyes without looking up.
Just…never…lie. I will tell a 5’8 girl to her face that I am 5’5, even as she eyes me up and down saying ‘you have to be taller than that.’
These are just my opinions. I would be glad to hear what other people have to say about this.
In addition, I love it when girls wear heels, I don’t understand why a woman ‘can’t’ wear heels if she’s with a shorter guy. If you’re already with the guy, don’t feel like you can’t wear heels. He might even like it! Usually if he’s a short guy and he’s wanting to date know already knowing you’re taller than him, he’s not going to care if you throw on some more inches. I can only assume the girls are more worried about how other people are going to look at them and their short-stack boyfriends.
Hi Romulus,
Women care a whole lot more about what everyone else around them says. They place extremely high value on public perception of the man she’s dating. It makes no sense but it is the truth. Poor shorter guy never understands who his lady is trying to impress when she’s constantly looking around in a nervous state to see who catches her out on the town with the short guy. The only opinion that should matter to her really, is his. I believe women dread the thought of crossing paths with a complete stranger or group of people she doesn’t know for the second or third time out who saw her on a date with a man shorter than she is. These people have no importance to her relationship and are likely the ones who made fun of her and her man the first time so her fears become reality if she sees these people again. The sad thing about all this is she’ll drop her man like a bad habit real quick because she can’t deal with the negative attention his lack of height brings. It is really stupid, but you wouldn’t believe the amount of thought women put into everyone else of little importance, who they’ve never met and are so eager to get a high report card from.
It’s totally different for the woman who strictly dates tall guys. At every opportunity she will do her very best to showcase him to the public while at the same time making it very clear to everyone in the room that the tall, prized man on her arm belongs to her and her only. For some women they take great pride in doing this to feed their ego and image. I’ve seen women crap all over the shorter guy they are out on a date with, treat him like complete garbage while trying to keep him concealed. In some cases the woman runs to the exits on a bathroom break and leaves the poor short guy with the bill because she doesn’t want to be seen exiting with him. At the same time, I’ve seen women walk into a restaurant proudly with her tall beau and prance around finding tables just to make sure everyone got a good look at him.
As for high heels, I really couldn’t care less if the woman I’m with wears them. In fact, I’ll tell her to rock her heels as much as she wants with me because I’m comfortable with her wearing them. What I don’t like is the 6 inch or more stripper heels or hooker boots. A friend of mine once told me to be mindful of women who constantly wear those pointy high heels. They have the ugliest feet! I’ve seen it from experience.
Reality sucks I feel sorry for short guys ESP really short guys … Under 5’7. 90 percent of women would never consider a short guy ESP when they are attractive and educated. If there are many tall guys chasing after them why would they ever consider a short man? No amount of expensive clothes can look good on u whereas a tall guy can wear sweats and a hoodie and still manage to look attractive.
Hi Leesa,
I don’t need expensive clothes to make my 5’6 self look good, but I can see where you’re coming from. You have your opinion and there’s nothing wrong with it. Short guys to you will never look good in quality or decent clothes right? Just because we’re short. So I guess we should stick to working on trying to make a hoodie and sweats look good on us even though we can’t look good in them according to you? That’s perfectly ok because the only women who ever told me I look good in a suit was my mom and gramma, and they matter the most. Aside from the usual gangster and mob compliments from my friends, no opinions mattered more to me than coming from two of the most important women in my life. In fact, all the women in my immediated family, sisters included told me that any man short or tall in a suit that’s well tailored to his size with the right shirt, polished shoes and tie, looks hot. Women who think good clothes only belong on tall men shouldn’t have a fashion opinion. Good fashion is for everyone who desires to look clean and feel good wearing them.
Well you really made my night. Thank you for the awesome comments.
I would like to add that superficiality is a good way to maintain a solid relationship. NOT!!! After awaking from being drag’d through the mud from bad relationships by chasing after clothes and shoes et., you’ll hopefully grow up and find that real relationship tactics are needed to produce a solid founding for growth. Now because you’re media struck, you’re conscious is tainted by what’s fed to on a daily bases of what a man is. Boys buy clothes to look good for women. A man will dress to impress, but for his own personal gain which is lookin good and feeling good. Boys don’t buy pampers for the baby. They buy clothes to impress women. Since women have set the standard of how the game works, they now complain that its not working fully. So, here it is I come along (5’7″ in height) and lite-skin’d (which is another total problem with Black women) with good financial standing, dress well, and take care of my babies (because I’m a single father of two) gets pushed aside because of a standard that no one can tell me where it originated from.
According to women, men are 6 foot tall. If I had to go buy yalls standards of what a man is, then I would have to stop taking care of these babies and return being a boy. But we can’t have that can we? You’ll take me to court for not being a man. Sounds double standard correct? I salute men of all heights who take care of home and their babies. These are men!
Here’s the bottom line… men do men things, and boys play. It appears women have a not so clear concept of what a man is. In high school we chased after who looks the best, and wore the best clothes. It seems to me that many women haven’t upgraded their mentality from high school, and call the shots from this teenage mentality. Thus we have men that are 5’11″ wishing he were taller listening to teenage tactics. I’m only 5’7″ and guaranteed I walk tall and feel wonderful about me. This has come from me tapping into my spiritual side.
So date white women who lIke light skinned black men of many heights…Well a big black man is better but a short black man is still “bigger” than a tall white man tee hee…..
Your welcome Brandon!
I don’t get upset or waste time on women like Leesa above. Don’t know how old she is, but immature, pubescent minds like hers produce these childish posts. She is right to a degree about the numbers against shorter men.
“Under 5’7. 90 percent of women would never consider a short guy ESP when they are attractive and educated”
Here’s the good news. The women in that 10 percent category who do consider shorter guys are often the finest of the fine! Some of them are in the very tall, over 6’0 range and have no problems dating a guy who’s much shorter.
I have no use for women who won’t acknowledge my 5’6 frame. Let the tall guys deal with these girls who want them solely for their height. It’s just one less f**k buddy for me because my tall guy friends don’t have much relationship use for these women either. She can’t be that good of a person if she’s willing to sacrifice everything just for height.
I hope the script flip on shorter women. They expect men to be taller than them in dating and at the same time expect taller men to recognize them while they’re shorter. All I see is selfishness and double standards. Most likely, if a woman’s profile starts of with, “I want a tall man…”, then they’ll get what they deserve regarding him cheating on her. The tall guy knows he’s a hot commodity and will get every piece he can to name as a trophy. Jealous? No… just a bit concerned that women are setting bad examples on chasing after physical parts than quality of a person. A lot of women want everything long and tall. I have daughters and every man should be concerned about this frivolous-teenage mentality. Do you think I’m teaching my daughters to chase after long and tall? I teach them to have quality understanding and choose good attributes concerning a mate, whether short of tall.
If women are gonna chase after tall men as trophies to make them look good… then they shouldn’t be surprised if men use them for sex adding to their list of sexual trophies. Surprisingly, most women don’t have an issue with this. So when you become pregnant as he wishes to continue his whoring mission, because you made yourself available for it, you’ll want him man up. But remember, you chased after his height. Height doesn’t preclude someone being a jerk whether short or tall. Height is height. How in the world can someone make such a careless life choice off of height? Even if a women said she would date only short men… that’s stupid! The whole idea is teenage mentality! Please grow up… you’re teaching this nonsense to your children!
Hey MBlue, nice posts!
I’d like to add that when these pregnant women demand the talls guys who knocked them up to take responsiblity for their actions, it’s usually a WIN-WIN situation for her, especially if it goes to the courts. Women are taking men to the cleaners for every red cent and the money is not entirely going to the welfare of the child. There’s lots of neglected, unwanted children who are turning up dead in freezers, dumpsters or vermin infested factories that are abandoned. Meanwhile she’s partying it up with her friends spending his dollars only to later complain to the courts that she’s not getting enough from him to support her fat ego and the child. The child suffers the most in the end, followed by the father who’s been shut out. Don’t get me wrong, there are enough deadbeat dads of all sizes(mostly tall guys) making more babies with the same height demanding short ladies. So it does go both ways but moreso against the man.
You are totally right about women and the teenage mentality. They seem to hold on to it and carry it well into their adult years. I’m very thankful that I’m not sitting in a crowded courtroom waiting on divorce proceedings, child support payment arrangements, custody battles or visitation rights. Women with the mindset of a grade eight student define themselves and their relationships with men by his height and not much else.
I’m actually glad these women want nothing to do with me when I think of the big picture. Sometimes to the point where I feel sorry for the tall guys they’ve used and abused and vice-versa. These are the guys who’s pockets are drying, wallets are thinning and their sanity is being tested, all because they’ve been blessed with height? NO THANK-YOU!!!
Sorry for the late response… I totally agree with you. Let them be blessed with the mess while I receive a more sane women who’s mentally grounded! AGREED!!!
Well it’s on both ends females wants taller mens but me a 5’6″ rather have taller women and thick so shorter women don’t like me I move on it’s in only black and white race of some most mexican females no problem well I approach the most beautiful females at ease so have that mouth piece lol
Jess,
We are homegirls lol!!!!! I feel like you, u are me! Lol…. I wish had a friend like u, we could understand eachother…..
Ila
Indeed as there are few woefully tall girls haha… You seem to live a more interesting life though!!! It sucks being tall & female indeed!
Where are all these great, single, short men? I am a very well educated, attractive, athletic woman and I love shorter men, but they never ask me out! I am not alone because several of my girlfriends prefer shorter men as well. Maybe shorter men are missing the obvious and not asking out women that they should be. Not all women prefer tall men!
Hey Kim
“Gimme some kinda sign girl, oh my baby, show us that you like us, alright now.”
I’ve changed the lyrics a bit, but it’s basically the same Brenton Wood hit. All it takes for me to approach a taller woman or any woman for that matter is getting a positive sign from her. Always a good start isn’t it?! A smile, a wink of the eye or a nod of the head in appreciation of me is more than good enough. If you really wanna be blunt about it, a slight boob-brush or bounce of your hips against mine will totally get me started. I honestly don’t go near any tall woman with the evil short guy hate in her eye. I’ve seen that look many times and subsequently been shot down for trying. In fact the harshest rejections have all come from the tall ladies. You say shorter men are missing the obvious? Last I checked, tall women hate us short guys and fight the short girls for the tall guys attention just the same. Maybe you and your lady friends are different and actually like shorter guys but I tend to believe that you are rare and non-existent. Where’s the proof? It’s not as if tall women/short men couples dominate the earth, but you definitely see lots of the tall men/short women couples. Furthermore, you just don’t regularly see or hear about any taller woman prefering a shorter guy unless she’s completely devoid of image, isn’t concerned about public reaction and doesn’t care a single bit about his height or how society paints the picture perfect couple. Maybe she’s completely turned on by shorter guys, who knows. It’s still not a regular occurence for taller women to be attracted to any man that’s shorter than her unless she wants to be laughed at and ridiculed.
Thank you Kim, for indeed coming forward and contributing to this discussion. If you speak the truth about liking shorter guys, that gives me a flicker of hope that I might meet a tall, lovely woman like you in this lifetime. BTW, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with going against the norm and approaching the guy first. If the shorter guy in question is not interested in you, that’s his loss. A least you tried, so move on to the next guy. Just please realize and understand that there are other short guys in this world that would love to experience the warm embrace of a taller woman. I’m one of them!
Tall girls are the least self confident most self conscious trainwrecks! You tiny dudes must be hard up motherfuckers because like you we are bottom of the “food chain”! Still I’d rather fuck myself than any of you! A women has to feel like a women or just nit bother with it! I’s rather lick a short bitches ***** than mess with a shirt dude! Even unwanted big lesbians have standards!
Former model English n
English not too good & this thing cut me off? Well no… TRUE…
most men detest tall women but when you find the right one they love our long legs & extra tight mmm… Well we aren’t used up like short females! I have felt the hatred & disgust too! But well I still find a good man from time to time? Leanardo, Mr. Clooney, Tom, mmmmm wow three men oh Tom Brady too you are the only men we love!!! Lol haha!!! Kris Humphries, Will Smith( worked out good with you’re hideous lady) & Shaq must die! Just kidding pedophiles have rights too!
So short men can’t approach tall girls & tall girls can’t approach anyone? Short men are turned down by girls short & tall ( I don’t believe this)? Tall men rule!? Short girls are everybody’s dream!? Sad! No hate just wow & lame! But ( not a sentence starter) life is what it is … No more,,,,, no less…
Kim,
A lot of short men have met up with a version of Rosa mentioned in this blog and have given up on women because we don’t want to meet another version of Rosa. Some women really get angry at short men who dare to even talk to them and sometimes short men have had the woman begin harassing him or file a sexual harassment complaint. Some have even attacked short men on blogs, facebook posts, or started bad rumors abouth them as a form of retaliation!
The scary thing is, there are tons of short women like Rosa who have real genuine hate for short guys and sometimes just as much, if not more hate for other short girls who compete with them. I know it’s wrong for me to say this but I sometimes revel in playing the role of the heightist, bastard, asshole, SOB, whatever you want to call me, anytime I encounter short, wised-assed, Rosa-like women. Not that she would care anyway and I don’t waste too much time being a jerk or annoying to them. The joke does get old quick. After a while my attention turns to the beautiful, elegant woman with the incredible personality, tastefully dressed not to overimpress. Tall and short chicks alike are all approachable when they don’t have attitude written on their faces. Not all young women are stuck in the highschool mentality and the smart ones usually don’t see height, weight or skin colour when judging the quality of a man. Now, I don’t go actively hating on short women but I can say that I honestly have less use for them as I’ve gotten older. I’ve had enough unpleasant experiences with shorter women and it’s not like they look my way in the first place. The majority still crave tall men and nothing more. There are some tall women who are amazingly friendly, beautiful people that just need to get past the shy stage like some short guys. These are the types that don’t really care about a man’s height. In this group, there are some girls who stand well over 6’0 feet who actively pursue guys way shorter than they are, some up to a foot or more. I’ve seen couples like this hand in hand and I think it’s amazing. On the other hand, some tall women are the biggest of b!tches that have a capital “B” hat permanently glued to their heads. I try to avoid these ladies and go by what the expression on her face says. If she’s interested, she’ll give me enough of a sign to invite me over and chat with her.
Hi Desirae,
You can keep chowin’ down on squirrels and dive into your box of pleasure toys LOL! Are you a new lesbian? Straight chick gone 180? Bisexual heightist who only fools around with tall men and tall women? No worries from me, that’s OK, hahaha! I think it safe to conclude that your opinion of short guys doesn’t speak for all of the tall ladies of the world. I’m glad it doesn’t. Forgive me but are you a teenager perhaps stuck in highschool with fears of being laughed out of the prom because you feel like a giant beast compared to everyone else? You could very well be a tall, lovely, long legged beautiful woman who all the guys look at and want to get with, no doubt. To me you just sound like a big “little” girl that needs to grow up a lot more mentally. Your language, syntax and how you’re disrespecting short guys here is indicative of your personality. FYI tall GIRLS are usually immature train wrecks with confidence issues just like you said. They closely follow the superficialities of the red carpet and all that is pretentious in the world of Hollywood. Tall WOMEN on the other hand are beautiful, mature, educated, confident and considerate of everyone, short, tall, big, and small.
Happy Holidays.
Apollo,
I have no idea if Desirae is in HS.. But if she is let’s play nice & not ask her if she’s scared of being a “giant” at prom. Just as we all feel sad about the height we have or don’t have this girl & many others clearly suffer I’n various ways from the gift or curse of height! If I could “abra kadabra” we’d change heights & you’d be 5’11 & I’d be a “lil girl” for the first time but life isn’t like that so we suffer it out & I think short men & tall women should live in harmony… Truly though I see short men out & about daily ( with wives, girlfriends, buying clothes, shopping for groceries) & you all seem fine to me! I have pretty much sworn off leaving my house other than necessary because people must constantly harass & stare at me due to my height. I don’t know this girls situation but I can imagine if it’s like mine her total dismal frustration!
Oh & Colette let’s the two of us (plus 2 or 3 other tall girls) get together & kidnap Tom Brady!!! (we are not as strong as you all think so it take a few of us!!) jk….
Tom Brady is the standard! So like..all other men (tall or short) should not bother, of this I agree! Finally, I’m down to help BUT since he is one of the FEW tall men who likes tall chicks lets “let” Giselle have him! Giselle Rocks!!! LOL
This is probably going to be the weirdest response ever!
I’m 5’7″ and from a foreign country where I’m actually taller than the average man. However, people there marry within their own religion and I belong to a minority religious community there. What’s even worse, I’m not a believer. Spiritual, maybe, but religious no. As you can tell, I’d be a misfit there. So, I moved to the US in my early 20s. And where do I move? To an ethnically Dutch majority town. I ended up being the shortest man there. That was the first time I ever became conscious about my height although I still did not think of it as a negative because the vast majority of women were still shorter than me.
Well, I tried to date, and as you can tell, I got smirks and sneers from 100% of the women I asked out. At first, I did not correlate my height to the rejections. I was an expat after all. There were those “other” (race, religion, etc) issues to blame.
A few years passed and I moved to a major metropolitan city. And as is the case with life in such places, I joined internet dating sites. For the following 8 years, I was always a member of some dating site or the other – match, eharmony, okcupid, chemistry, perfectmatch, … even yahoo personals! I read close to 15,000 profiles (just checked the number from my accounts – still open).
About 50% of the women excluded my ethnicity and religion (agnostic/atheist – more reviled previously than now). And about 40% excluded be based on my height, and the excuse for most of them was that their heels were more important than their potential partner’s qualities. That left 10% who did not exclude me in their preferences in an ideal partner. This was on match.com.
Eharmony was slightly better. The site does not (or did not) have an easy way for women to exclude me by height, but they could still exclude me based on religion.
Anyway, I reached out to about 2,500 women across all dating sites. About 250 responded. And I met precisely one woman on a date.
Note that I was also progressively balding. My photos was up to date. My height was my real height. I do have a PhD. As my profile said, I did win a national tennis tournament and I did stand 3rd in a marathon in my country. And my profile was hilarious, at least going by the majority of the 250 who indicated so in their messages to me. The one woman I met told me on my first date that I was too lean (she was overweight, and I did not care) and that we would not be a good match.
Well, unrelated to the above, I do have gender dysphoria. Going by the shock in the faces of friends who learned this about me, nobody had a clue. I was not particularly girly. However, I was struggling with this issue since childhood – way too much body hair and hair loss.
So, not seeing any point in dating anymore, I set out on a journey of self-discovery. For the following two years, I went to school to get my MBA. And then set out on an entrepreneurial adventure and a humanitarian mission for 3 years. As a woman. By the time I settled back into a regular job last year, nobody had a clue that I’m not a genetic woman.
Anyway, I started dating again. I mean women. Lesbian/Bi women.
I noticed something very different among these women. They care most about whether you are masculine or feminine. They do care about whether you look good or not. They are more secure about themselves and about their sexuality and about their bodies than straight women. And I learned that the extent to which straight women fuss about their partner’s height is totally ridiculous!
Especially among bi women, I observe this very common statement in their profiles (copied from a profile I still see on a dating site) –
“If you are a woman, please be femme at least in attitude. If you are a man, don’t write to me unless you are 6′ tall or over”.
This is the extent to which if you are a straight man, your height will be held against you in dating!
I’ve had lots more responses as a lesbian woman to exactly the same online dating profile I used to have as male, except with my gender changed. To the canned questions on eharmony, I even gave exactly the same responses I used to give as a man. In the last one year, I’ve had 23 dates since February 2011. I’ve never had sex, ever (yes, I’m an agnostic/atheist saving myself for the right one however ridiculous that might seem to you).
As a curious person, I thought I should figure out what dating life looks like for a straight woman. I’m not sexually interested in men. Speed dating sounded like a fantastic idea.
During both of the speed-dating events I attended, I noticed how straight women were so self-conscious and insecure about themselves. All that they could tell me during the breaks was that I looked so much better than them and that I seemed so much more confident and happier than them. I noticed how almost all of their eyes lit up and how easily smiles appeared on their faces when they were at the tables with tall stereotypically handsome men, while the shorter men had to be hilarious to get the same reaction.
These straight women were too superficial about themselves and about their potential partners. I do not want to generalize to the entire straight women population, but now as a woman, I’m ashamed of being clubbed into the superficial category.
You have to note that my concentration was on the women around, not on the men. Hey, don’t shoot the observer just as you don’t shoot the messenger;, I was on a study mission, not a husband-finding mission.
At the end of those two speed-dating events and three straight singles holiday parties over the last month, I realized that I made the right decision to be true to myself and to date gay/bi women as a woman.
I am happier because these women allow me to be myself. I can be vulnerable to my dates. I don’t have to exaggerate anything to impress my dates with faking anything. I don’t get shot down for my height or my physical features … quite the opposite, and therein now I have a challenge – I have to eliminate the ones who are attracted to me only for my physical features.
This is not to say that all of you short men should be women. I had a gender issue, which I needed to solve for myself (not for anyone else). You don’t have ALL of the same struggles as I did in life.
Do yourselves a favor and do what you enjoy in life and be exactly who you are! You might think of your short height as a problem, but it will help you filter out shallow women who would be wrong for you. Women (and men) do not come with the word “shallow” written on their foreheads. You can only find them and eliminate them from your dating pool if they behave in a shallow manner. Your height gives you the benefit of not having to deal with shallow people because the shallow ones will eliminate themselves from your dating pool. You only have to pick from the rest.
Now if you are looking for casual sex, I admit that this may not help you much. However, if you are looking for a LTR, your short height is a boon, not a handicap. If 50 years from now, you want to look back and cherish the one you are with, you have to find a relationship that lasts. Everyone gets older and everyone will have more physical flaws as they age. Only the women who can see beyond your height and your other physical features to the traits important for a relationship will be the right ones to keep.
Ok, I’m still here.. damn it, don’t even have the guts to end my life. It’s really sad reading how 5’5-5’7 guys here keep tellign stories that they struggle and mention being 5-6 5’7 like the worst height ever. Im’ 5’3 so where do I stand then? if 5’7 guys struggle so much, what the hell can I do? I’m also skinny and poor. Not my fault ,I was growing up in a poor family and never really had access to healthy food. However my dad is 5’7 and I got to be 5’3 (I’m 20)God was mean to me apparently.. Im not in USA and to all those who point out “western culture” well guess what- It’s the same in the eastern european culture. The only exception could be -asia and latin america where people seem shorter than average. But even then, I heard that in South Korea everyone’s obsessed with appearance and these days they’re getting taller too. Anyways, after reading these stories I don’t even see the point in trying to date someone. I will only be humiliated. I HAVE to lie about my height and wear lifts to be at least 5’5,otherwise I’m considered a freak, but it doesn’t really improve things as much and I’ll be discovered anyways.. I’m very sensitive and don’t have freaking muscle builts like everyone here keeps saying -Oh im short but with a good built. I can’t even afford going to the gym or eating properly..I had to drop out of the uni because parents couldn’t pay for tuition and I’m still in search of a job but nobody wants to hire a dropout in my country(russia). What have I ever done to deserve this? I’d do a lot to be 5’6 at least..But whatever I do it will never be enough..I’m crippled for life now, so just a note to you all 5’6ers and above- count your lucky stars and stop whining..
And one more thing that’s always surprising to me how everyone thinks just because they are short, they have to excel at everything else. Like they have to be perfect in other areas..I don’t strive to be a highly paid employee or some extraordinary human being. I don’t want to look like a manlet with a abs and muscles.I simply want to be average but apparently that lowers my chances at having a relationship even more, since I’m nothing special AND short .. I’m tired of this bullshit. If I’m destined to die alone, so be it..less humiliation for me..
Alex, I am in no position to speak of your situation and all I can offer to you are a few words of advice, the view from my experiences, and encouragement to not end your life. Suicide is the cheapest and easiest way out of anything in this world. You owe it to yourself to find your “inner” self and search for happiness in every situation without needing a woman to justify it. Yeah, by virtue of my 5’6 frame, I probably shouldn’t talk to you about my situation because I’m three inches taller? Well, let me tell you that my dating life has been fraught with rejection and discrimination. I know my height is a serious concern for a lot of women because the honest ones told me straight up in their words “I’m sorry but I can’t date someone shorter than me.” Sometimes the women were nice about it, lied by saying they were already involved with someone and used other compliments to expedite her rejection of me. Stuff like, “you’re a good looking guy, you’ll find a good woman,” or “any woman would be lucky to have a decent guy like you,” or ” you are really cute, but I’m so sorry you’re just not my type.” A tall chick who’s not interested in you, but wants to let you down easy will tell you that your lack of height is “her problem,” not yours. She’ll even tell you that you’re a good looking guy while playing the #1 broken record hit song “there’s someone out there for everyone.” Shucks, I know there’s nothing wrong with me but Hollywood tells you what they think is wrong with me!
What I’ve done over the past couple of years is take a step back from the world of women, dating, and re-evaluated myself as a person entirely. Loving myself, accepting my height and treating others the way I want to be treated is a life long lesson. I do sympathize with you though. It is very hard to be a man in this world if you are short. Even worse now if you’re under the 5’10 feminist preference limit. Funny how women are naturally shorter than men, strive for equality, yet the really short ones thumb their noses at short guys who are taller than they are? Not that I”m trying to dissuade you, but sex and relationships with women are overrated as far as I’m concerned. Look at the divorce rate and check the average length of a marriage contract before the two parties run to the courts to get it annulled. If it makes you feel any better, I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 25( now 40), and quite honestly I would have kept it had I known more about the sex and the woman that I what getting involved with. All the years of being denied, forced to listen to the dirty love stories from my friends and watching them go on dates wasn’t worth the sexual disappointment I had to endure moments later. To make a long story short, my first time chicky just layed on the bed and expected me to pleasure her without giving any love back to me. It was disgusting, boring and unrewarding actually. I have never climaxed from sex and I can count the number of times I’ve had sex after that on two hands. Death grip whacking might have played a factor there. Only once was sex a memorable and remotely pleasurable experience. Trust me, YOU AREN’T MISSING MUCH, unless a woman isn’t shy about being an experienced but polite “porn slut,” in the bedroom and does her best to share the pleasure. People talk about 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 month dry spells? I didn’t even know what a “dry spell” was until I stopped putting women on my priority list. Try FIVE years without as much as a kiss or a hug. During that time I healed myself mentally, re-introduced myself to my love of music, film, art and amazing food!
Avoid the typical bar fare, clubby type chicks that are looking to go home with the tallest guy in the place that makes all the other girls jealous of her. Sometimes they don’t even care about the guy they leave the bar with. He’s just a weekly piece of “ego food” for her. Engage in social activities or save what you can financially and sacrifice your life to join a discussion group that stimulates your mind. Enrol yourself in a course, exercise your brain, re-educate yourself to new technologies. Don’t make women a priority when making these choices. This is about YOU and feeling better about yourself in order to gain confidence to socialize with women. I know, I know, I know……..confidence isn’t measured equally by women! Tall guys with confidence are bravehearts. Short guys with confidence are Napoleon’s cousins. There is a big difference between having confidence and showing arrogance. One makes you look like a jerk, the other makes you look like the most important man in the room. Also, do your best to clean yourself up and make your best features stand out. Be strong and keep your head up. Suicide isn’t the answer.
Best of luck to you.
Ok, sorry but your post it too long and you’re doing exactly what I was talking about. Telling story how bad it is being 3 inches taller? Seriously? Please don’t talk about it like you’re in the same boat as me (because you’re not) or complain how many times you’ve been rejected, trying to explain to me how BAD you have it at 3 inches taller. Is that supposed to make me feel better? Imagine yourself 3 inches shorter and reading someone who’s taller and complains about it like it’s the end of the world..At 5’6 I would’ve been happy, that’s all I have to say. Too bad you don’t appreciate it..
Hey Alex,
Sorry if I’ve rubbed you the wrong way. I apologize. My point was not to offend you or attempt to compare or discuss your situation with mine. All I was offering to you was what I’ve experienced in life as a 5’6 guy. To be honest, not quite 5’6, maybe 5’5 and a half. Yeah, if you want to say it’s ALOT harder for you at 5’3, continue doing so. I don’t know how much success in life “wallowing in sorrow” will get you. I took a step back from the dating world because I felt that that was the best way for me to clear my mind of my frustrations. I haven’t actively involved myself but it’s not like I’m absent. Relationships with women doesn’t make a man a MAN. Life has a lot more to offer rather than making it with women the sole focus of your existence. Besides, I’ve heard enough women say “any man under 6’0 tall isn’t a man.” How are we not in the same boat from that? I used to get really ticked when I heard that stuff from chicks. I don’t anymore because I realized those women are shallow and immaterial. Sometimes I laugh it off. Maybe that’s what you need, some humour in your life. You sound like you’re an educated person Alex and can do better for yourself. If it means making sacrifices in life to get ahead, DO IT!
Suicide is still a cheap way out Alex. It’s not something you politely joke about either. Depression is a serious issue for a lot of people, tall, short, skinny or fat. I’ve learned to deal with depression and avoid the typical first question of the shrink. “When was the last time you had sex?” It’s just not that important to me anymore. If you want to stay suicidal and depressed, make sex a priority in life, but don’t say I didn’t tell you to pay for it. I have a hard time believing a good sex trade worker would refuse money from you. If you want a relationship with a woman who’s not a prostitute, you better do something about yourself in order to fix that. Look at yourself in the mirror. To sit and do nothing means you’re accepting what you get in life. Peace.
Hey Alex,
Read the above post from “Someone Somewhere.” How long is that one.
Appolo,
I still don’t think we’re in the same boat. You are obviously more attractive than I am thanks to those 3 inches. I know how attraction changes with every inch. I become much more better-looking at 5’6 but only with the help of ‘magic’ shoes and I hate that when I take them off ,people see real me. It’s not only about women, but they’re feeding the fire so to speak. I don’t read full posts when it starts with -”oh I’m 5’6-5’7″ and then continues with stories of rejections. My friend is 5’6, nothing special and he’s quiet like me yet his GF is stunning and they’ve been together for several years now. Same with my cousin…But 5’3 is just ugly and extremely unattractive on a guy. Have you noticed what women say when they are open to dating shorter guys, they usually mean 5’5 5’6 as the shortest. You never hear 5’3 becase It’s considered freakishly short and I agree. It’s also about liking what I see in the mirror, and I hate seeing this little child all the time..Too bad he’s still there even if I’m not looking…So yeah It’s A LOT harder for me and you have no idea how it affects my life, especially in these teen years. But thanks for trying to help, even though I’m afraid too late for that.
Move to Flordia, Mexico or Japan & you will be fine! I see short men every day as happy as can be ( yes at 5’3). I know it won’t make you feel better if you are serious at all. People tell me that other 5’11 women are happy. Does it make me happier? NO! Indeed not! Truly though, many short men are happy & only a few supermodel tall girls are… We’re rare, you are common…. You are fine & even I am wallowing lol let’s stop….
But you can’t know if they are happy. Maybe it’s just an act.. And I can’t just leave everything and go to those places. Florida would be good but I’m not even from US and sadly I can’t enter the country just because I want to. Japan -another language and culture..Mexico same thing. Immigration is too extreme.
I don’t know why you’re unhappy being tall. I’d rather be you. The fact that you’re rare is only a positive thing. And we’re not so common either, like 1-2 in 100 maybe.
Well I know the feeling. People have told me to move to Seattle, Denmark, Russia etc. I can’t either. I live in the US, in the southwest. Not hospitable to tall women is what I know. I feel for you if you live in an area where short men are not accepted! Being rare creeps guys out! It’s BAD! I wish we could trade heights TOO! But we can’t, barring a startling new change in modern science OMG, think of the fun we’d have,,,,, SADLY……….
i have just been reading this article and comments for a bit. Bored I just started a new semester and all. I am 5’4 and I would date whoever as long as they had self-respect and understand what a healthy relationship really is. Yet again I am only 19 and pretty naive….
Trust me, you don’t want to date just anyone. Some people don’t brush their teeth.
Sadly indeed.. Well, maybe people are just surprised by you, not necessarily creeped out, It’s not like you’re an alien with 2 heads.. For instance when I see a tall woman I think -wow, she looks awesome, and I may pay attention because you’re rare in a good way. But Im sure women never say that seeing a short guy, they hardly even notice us, and probably think -’what a loser’…More to that, I am extremely shy and sensitive and rejection is so painful to me, that I dont think I would ever be able to approach any girl, especially after readin this blog, seeing successful people who are single in their 30-40s. and knowing how small my chances truly are.. it appears I will have to get used to a lonely life :( Damn legs…
I am 5’4 and yeah its tough especially living in the US which is pretty materialistic but I look at it as if marriage/kids thing happens it happens but if it does not its not the end of the world. This is life is worth living beyond that just one aspect of relationship. You have a valid opinion though 5’6 and 5’7 but I promise you that a child with kidney failures wished he or she had your life. Its all about perspective and understanding that is perhaps life’s hardest lesson.
Don’t know where to begin. I’m a 5’5″ guy. 34 years old. I guess I’m as regular as they come. I don’t make a lot of money but I get by. I think I’m decent looking, but I only run 10 miles a day. I have the kind of body that women wish their men would have.
I’ve devoted my life to being a runner and I love it. I have lots of great attributes that women want in a man. Intelligent,humorous,thoughtful,kind,physically fit. I always thought that anyone of these attributes would make me stand out. They haven’t done a damn thing for me, except women tell me that I’m such a great guy and that I’d find someone. I mean how much of that can a guy take? These same women that are telling you this are the same one that are going off and finding OTHER men. I never thought about my height being the issue until I started paying attention to other couples(I worked at an airport).
I noticed that the men were always taller than their women, and I started doing some research on the internet. I noticed that height played an important role in women’s attraction to men. I was shocked! It had me questioning whether or not I was a man. I mean I am an endurance athlete for crying out loud!!! I mean men do stuff like this. I started asking a few women I knew and indeed my height turned out to be a major issue. I was mortified to find out that all of my good attributes are being overshadowed by ONE attribute that I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER!!
I mean how am I supposed to find a woman if 95% of the female population isn’t attracted to me? I almost feel as though I have to be desperate to find a woman. I’m confident!! I have some super amazing attributes, but what does all that mean in the face of being short? All I can say is that I feel sad that women would rather settle for someone half the man I am, because he is taller. Life is not fair indeed!!
Hi Jessica,
When you read a post here like Desirae’s stating that she’d rather go downtown on a chick as opposed to messing around with a short dude, she’s putting a bullseye square on her head. By insinuating that a shorter man can’t make a taller woman or any woman for that matter feel like a WOMAN, but a tall lesbian chick can do the job, how’s that supposed to make a short guy feel? My short frame is worthless and any woman is better me? I’m sorry but letting social prejudices dicate whether I’m a quality person is BS! It’s hurtful stuff. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation either. I know two wrongs don’t make a right, but she’s leaving herself wide open for harsh reaction.
BTW, tall girls CAN approach any guy, but, they DON’T. The majority choose to stand on the sidelines and watch the shorter girls crap on the same short guys she equally hates. This can work in her favour because the short girls occupying the unwanted attention from the shorter guys means tall girl can scope out the available taller guys. It’s highly unlikely that a short guy will approach a taller woman after being shot down repeatedly shorter women, unless the tall woman makes herself accessible to him. It’s hard for a short guy to not to have preconceived feelings of failure with taller women when the ladies closer to his height range and slightly taller or shorter don’t want a thing to do with him. Meanwhile tall girl’s blood pressure is rising by the minute all this time because she’s losing the tall guy’s attention to the short girl. The remaining shorter guys in the room are rendered worthless. Sometimes the tall girl will make a move and approach the taller guy before the short girl does to see if he’s got issues with her height.
Short men CAN and DO approach tall women. I do but not regularly. Too much rejection. Besides it’s not like I can that say I’ve been successful in landing a date with a lovely taller babe with long legs, but it hasn’t stopped me from trying. What I don’t do is approach any tall woman. I try to screen out the ladies who are more likely to be receptive and courteous to my advances even though it’s rare for them. Her facial expression tells the story most of the time. I stay very, very far away from the tall ladies looking to crucify me very the monent I step into her personal space. If she’s got issues with me being shorter, she will definitely show me.
Btw, if you check growtall forum you can see there are ~ 80 000 depressed people and teens because of this mean society and women preferences. And the sad thing is -most of them are normal height 5’6-5’10.
Try being Asian. :) I always smile at those tall women, I like them, they are often very pretty, beautiful some might say, yet I wouldn’t date them. Reason? The logic of the world. A woman needs a man who’s taller.
Kinda funny anectdote, a girl I knew through parties and such, a tall one indeed. We went out to have a cup of coffee, her idea. One of my friends found her very attractive and perhaps I could assist in this “love to come” by making her see that he’s very much into her…
Funny as it is she asked me if we could talk about him and how he felt about her (a perfect match up, just that it was kinda odd she texted me, yet some people are shy) although I adviced her to confront him with her feelings, she kinda insisted on me having this cup of coffee with her, and since I already knew that he likes her, then it could only turn out good (what you don’t do for friends).
We got to the topic of dating people and finding the right one. I know already from the countless of encounters (even tall ones :D I find them super attractive especially when I’m not taller than the majority) what I want in a woman and one is… She has to be shorter than me, because as I told her.
“Wouldn’t it look funny. If a guy walks with a girl who’s taller than him? It kinda looks out of order, don’t you think?”
Unsettling as it is, it’s the truth. She agreed and we made fun off people on the streets from the window that we sat nearby.
She never dated my friend although I told her that he was attracted to her and she should give him a call, I feel kind of bad for my friend because I told him she was attracted to him while we were out drinking coffee.
This may answer the reason why short men don’t date/look at taller women. It is unnatural. It may also draw out the reason why shorter men are at times mean to taller women. Because many of them knows like me, it is unreasonable to be in public with them as a couple. It will ruin the mood in bars and cafés, she will be the center of attention to all the googling and the question will arise.
“Why is she dating a man that’s shorter than herself, is something wrong with her?”
or
“She probably have some sort of fetish.”
Its funny because it took me many years to understand this, now I raised my standards to make sure nobody gets hurt that she has to be shorter than me. It’s only natural and if the women at that height don’t likes me, well I don’t dwell on things, I just wanted to share this fun yet strange anectdote.
We wouldn’t date u either fool!
Speak for yourself. Most of us wouldn’t mind several inches. I know I wouldn’t. There’s nothing funny if a man(no matter what height) is in good shape and the girl is tall and slim. It looks hot actually and even if people notice,it doesn’t mean they necessarilty think it’s funny. They could just be jealous. And actually who gives a shit what others think.. The problem here is like Jessica said- it’s very rare that tall women are interested in us, and we’re too scared of rejection to even approach.
@ JustMe
We’ll call this reply: An Uneasy Truth versus Easy Lies
JustMe:
“I think all this anger would diminish a little if people would just stop fxxking lying on their online dating profiles.”
2Shortf4u:
No. All “this anger” is really that of those holding a prejudice based on irrational constructs. The object of revulsion is hardly to blame (as in most cases of intolerance.)
Shorter guys are barred (yes barred) from competition based on one non self-inflicted attribute alone: that of height. The restriction exists before any candidate replies so it is not “no liars”, but “no shorter than xx guys.” Whether one realizes it or not, your suggestion is just a deflection from that truth.
JustMe:
“If you’re not actually 5’9″, don’t say that you are, and if you’re not actually athletic, don’t say that you are. Do not wear hats that cover up a receding hairline in all pictures and do not take angle-shots of your face to make it look skinner. Do not claim to love camping if you actually mean you love Glamping, and do not say you’re open-minded if you actually think men are superior to women or that all guys are cheaters deep down inside.”
2Shortf4u:
Again, height and hair retention: these are nothing that anyone has control over. The other attributes, well they aren’t really applicable to this discussion as tall or short, hirsute or not, they are reflections of lifestyle.
Consider what one labels as lying too.
Firstly, what you reference as lies are really “embellishments.” That isn’t resorting to semantics because it’s not the inaccuracy, but rather the direction in which the inaccuracy falls that is critical. If a 6-4 guy said he was 6-2, I really doubt if the trophy hunter would say, “you liar, get lost.” The same applies to finding out if that average income earner was actually a multi-millionaire. What woman is going to reject him for telling such a falsehood?
Secondly, as far as “embellishment” goes, why is it considered appropriate for women to apply all sorts of soft embellishments to increase their chances, but not for the shorter man (oh… did we forgot that there is a double standard?)
Consider too, that “make-up” is by it’s very nature (and by the moniker itself) purely embellishment. Does one’s cheeks really have that blush? Are those lashes naturally that long? If one wishes all men to be accurately measured, then all photos should be done without makeup and under the same institutional lighting (hey… kind of like a prison mugshot… there’s an idea.)
Realistically, make-up happens because of it does make-up a better appearance. Also the competition does it, so why sell yourself “short?” There in “lies” the answer to why men often add an inch or two: Play the game, and everyone else does too.
We are not advocating excessive embellishment, but this is bound to happen. It’s not the “lying”, it’s still the fact that some are so adverse to “less than average height” that they consider it a personal affront should any below-average height man ask them out. How fxxked up is that?
JustMe:
“Just.Tell.The.Gxddxmn.TRUTH
This seems like the hardest thing in the world for some people and I’m not sure why. I mean, the thing with online dating is that SOMEDAY you will meet in person, and all lies will be found out. And it will be awkward. So just be the opposite of all our politicians and tell the truth.”
2Shortf4u:
This is the very demand that height intolerants refuse to follow.
What was that? How so?
It is because they attempt to hide the real truth about themselves.
That “truth” is that any who hold such an irrational and deep aversion to an attribute that is involuntary, immutable and has no real direct affect (shy of social isolation from height bigots) on a man’s ability to achieve relative success in the world, is really suffering from a large dose of low self-esteem. Does one really think that is an easy truth to broadcast to the world?
In fact, trying to hide it with irrelevancies such as “I like to wear heels”, or I need to feel surrounded, is just camouflage.
Hey, if someone MADE himself or herself unattractive (substance abuse, lack of grooming, suppressed interest in self-education, self administered nutrient overdose, unusual worshiping of fauna, etc…) it makes sense. But judging people as sub-par based on being several inches under average? (How dare they decide to be shorter and expect any respect. Really!) That’s not supported by any “primal” instinct. It’s purely prejudice based on thinking that only desiring a perceived trophy will somehow compensate for personal “short”-comings.
JustMe:
“Dear god.”
2Shortf4u:
“Rudolf” (The closest thing to a “deer god” I know of… I think he was below average height as far as Caribou went too.)
I was considering internet dating now that I’m out of college, been working for a few years, and recently out of a serious relationship. BUT man, reading this article AND their replies is kinda steering me away. Firstly, its an inherent risk of online dating or any dating that you will deal with embellishers. And to set the record straight OVER EXAGGERATING IS A DEPARTMENT OF LYING. In any case, I now feel that most women take it into consideration when filtering prospects.
eg if a guys says on his profile he’s 5’9″ = actually 5’7″
if a guy says he makes $100k/yr = he actually makes ~$60k
if he states he’s athletic = he’s slightly chubby
….etc
now if all this lying happens at a high enough frequency most women will be sure to factor this into their judgement NOW the guys that want to tell truth are F’ked. So please stop lying, they’re going to find out ANY way. It’s a method destined to fail and screw others over in the process.
PLUS, all those girls that go for dudes just because of their height… they’re stupid. WHY THE HELL would you want them anyway? it’s a very Primal instinct for women to be attracted to tall guys just for the sake of height. “He tall, He strong,” sounds like very primitive right? well that’s what these bimbos are thinking. YOUR height doesn’t help in much other than the dating scene. Sure, there are minor things such as some sports and management positions, BUT I’d argue Smarts trump both of those. Personally, I respect somebody because of their intelligence vs their stature(like I said its VERY primitive). Back when we were hunters & gatherers, yes i could see how the taller guys (not lanky) demanded a bit of respect given obvious advantages. BUT we’ve evolved passed that (except those women who only seek tall men). IT’s about brains now. The dude that will be able to provide more is the dude with more $$, which correlates strongly to intelligence vs height. The women that notice this seemingly obvious correlation will look beyond height.
just for $hits sake research or just consider average height of males at the top 20 schools. Being the ethnic make up is predominantly Jews, Asians (Indians inclusive), Caucasians… most of ‘em are pretty short. But they’re smart. eg the tall dudes at my school were all athletes (very small group of people) AND they got into these schools because of their athletic abilities not because of smarts.
AND FOR ALL YOU GUYS DEPRESSED BECAUSE YOUR SHORT. go out there are take f’king BIG RISKs, you’ve got nothing to lose any ways. There’s no downside, cause you already think you’re at the bottom.
I wonder what the count is now compared to the original 65 responses.
Anyways, I wish to say that I’m sitting with joy at my computer to say how glad I am at not being in a relationship with a tall egotistical jerk that ruins lives, who by the way has a high school mentality. You guys are putting too much stock in these women and it gives them power over you. If you place yourself in a position to be used then you had it coming to you. They’re using you as examples before everyone in this forum to justify their lustful addiction to height. If the shoe doesn’t fit ladies… don’t respond! I only remember these types of conversations in high school where the best of anything was displayed in the year book. We had fun during those days and then we graduated, but many of us are still chasing after the same grade school activities. Notice I said graduated. Our mentality should have graduated into adulthood along with our diplomas. And if you’re 30+ there’s no excuse.
I advise you men to start being ok with yourselves and up your self esteem. None of these women said anything about personality. Just height! Some men are concerned about not having this. But I say to you… learn who you are so you wont chase after happiness in people. If you find a tall women and it clicked, then it was worth the wait because you as a man are mentally stable. The more these women reject you guys, the more you’re attracted to them. It’s a ‘conquer territory’ issue men. For me, I get the point at 5’7″, and I’ve dated taller women. It was my confidence that attracted them to me. Women know a confident man when they see one. But, if there wasn’t a match (mentally, spiritually, like-minds) then there was no relationship. The final decision should be the two matching. But how can either side get a match if both are saying tall is the only option? That’s an addictive persona that leads to lifetime displeasures and endless desires never to be fulfilled. Thus, we have this form. Pull yourselves up men! Love and educate yourselves about who you are within! You shouldn’t have to worry about making people like you! Love yourselves and you’ll attract your soul mate!
Confidence personality..but what if there’s none? What if I’m boring? It’s not something you can learn over night , being funny or whatever is not something you can just acquire either. I am speechless..so much is expected from men.. and these ‘must be’s are just stupid. It wasn’t like I chose deliberatly to be short boring and poor.. But nobody cares.. They wouldn’t date someone because he’s a loving caring but not funny? SeriouslY? I never speak out about my preferences, like -she must be this or that, I don’t really care as long as she’s nice and kind-hearted. I realize I am way below most women’s expectations.. And it’s probably another subject but, they all want confident men, shy women want confident men, confident girls want confident guys. Nobody wants shy or not funny, the same way nobody wants short..It never ends for me does it? I’m like the package of what women DON’T want… It’s like be this and that, or you’re fucked.. Short with no personality.. how much worse can it get…
SINK OR SWIM!
To the men who feel helpless… start socializing more. Start your own networking group where people can mingle amongst themselves. Have social hour at your home with wine tasting amongst friends of friends, have a football & boxing parties (women love sports now days), host a lingerie party for women who are single. In other words, there are things that will draw women in, but you have to be creative to get them, that’s if you enjoy being around many at one time to choose from. Sitting around complaining is not the answer. Try starting small social events to get the ball rolling. You’ll be the ‘man’ just because of the idea, and they will not run because you’re short! They’ll respect you for your efforts! If you complain after not doing anything expecting a different result… you’ll never be happy.
i am completely anti-social and don’t enjoy being around people in general. hosting a party are u kidding, i don’t think you realize what a word shy means. Besides I don’t drink and hate sport. Jeez I’ll better hire a prostitute then.
As you wish…
before you start pursuing women you really need to start loving your self more. Count your blessings(if you say you have none, LOOK HARDER). Try learning some principle of Buddha and manage your desires vs. constantly being disappointed. Interpersonal strength if of utmost importance(MORE SO THAN HEIGHT).
For a little while I have been a lurker on this blog for a while, and most of the of the discussion points of short v tall have been made. I’m 5’4″ and in my 40′s meeting typical demographics (divorced, educated, etc…), however I would like to state a few hard learned lessons:
Life Is Not Fair
It’s true, there are a lot of very presumptuous young and old people with valued preconceptions that are simply twisted, lack reason or are plainly miserable and mean, and these short-sighted (pun intended) intellectually holier-than-thou might be your boss, mother-in-law or neighbor. Yep, they’re everywhere, we’re surrounded by idiocracy. What’s a short guy to do? Nothing will do more for you than self-determination. Take charge of your life, don’t accept no, and when you fall (which isn’t far), damn it laugh at yourself before anyone else can and pick yourself up. Life isn’t about fairness and equality and that holistic horsecrap, it’s your life and you need to take control by planning short-term and long-term goals for personal and professional life outcomes. Yep, you get out of life what you put into it. Can you handle it?
Women Do Not Want A Short Guy
News flash, it’s simple biology, chemistry and desire. There are a lot of women that don’t want short guys, it’s true.We might as well hold each others hands and jump off a damn cliff. However, there is nothing to benefit from by lamenting about women you can’t have a relationship with because a physical trait no of us can control. Women that are open to shorter men you will find, will be more interesting, open-minded and possess the common respect and decency we seek in all relationships. Laws of the jungle work both ways, baby, birds of feather.
Work With What You Got
Among many things I fly a large airplane (A330), cockpits are not made for tall guys but they are great for me! I tell tall guys to stop complaining when they are on my flightdeck. Short, crippled, tall, fat, small boobs you’re not getting any pity or sympathy from me. If you’re a reasonable person, work with what God gave you, accept your weaknesses and improve yourself. For those that are judgmental about something as minor as height, ignore them, bad genes come in all sizes. I would much rather have sex with a woman that I have a lot in common with, good sex and good times! Pretty and stupid can get boring real fast.
Happy Hunting!
Jettn’
It’s understandable when girls who have physical preferences or requirements look like this http://misshightimes.com/userdata_mht/6331/images/thumbs/6331_4aff54be53e41_t250.jpg
I’ve watched some interviews , and turns out most of the so-called height queens are far from THAT good looking themselves (for example watch the famous 20/20 report on short guys) and those who were open to all types of guys were actually cute lol. Guess I’m not missing much then..I’m happy now
Alex,
Tall women with weight problems are more often are the ones with the strong physical preferences for the taller guys. It’s way too embarrasing for her to be larger, heavier and taller than her BF. The same thing can be said for tall women who are considered “less pretty” or not as facially attractive to the mainstream public as other women. It’s a whole lot easier to hide a not-so- attractive face beside or behind a tall guy. Her hope is that a taller man’s frame will overshadow her negative features by shifting the primary focus from her to him. Her face won’t receive that much negative press because the focus will be on the height of the tall couple together and not just the woman. His height, combined with herself being marginally shorter than him brings less attention to to the tall girl because they will fit in as a typical tall man/shorter woman couple even if she towers over most of the remaining. men.
There are tall ladies who are very pretty, consider themselves top of the line quality and behave like complete bitches because their egos are constantly being fed on a daily basis.
Then there are the humble, polite, respectful type tall ladies who are good looking inside and out. They don’t care about a man’s height and will date guys more than a few inches shorter. The rarest tall girls are the ones who actually prefer the shorter guys. So hard to find! It may be a dominant/submissive, fetish- type, role-playing relationship, but there are honest women in this world who do like shorter men. Some without fetishizing.
Tall women with weight problmes? Do they even exist?. I think it’s just overweight women and less pretty women who hate us more. Which is probably a good thing for us, right?
P.S. and I’m ok with the fetish part lol
I’d just like to point out two statistical observations: short men do NOT beget short sons unless the mother is short. Boys’ heights are bounded below by the height of the *mother*, not the height of the father. So a short woman will NOT increase the likelihood of having a non-short son by mating with a tall man.
Also: girls’ heights tend to fall within the bounds of the parents’ heights. Hence a very tall woman WILL increase the likelihood of an average height daughter by mating with a short man. Her sons however will still be taller than her.
Mmm well my son is 10 & 5’7 now ( the one tall man/ boy who will love me for me). lol… My daughter is a lol girl 15 & fully grown at 5’5 (& here I thought I’d have a tall girl). So at 5’11 I “made” a big son and a little (in my world) daughter. Mysterious! The father (as I’ve mentioned is my gay friend)…. He’s 6’2. So who knows? Genetics suck! My parents are 5’8 (mom) and 6’0 (dad)? How I’m a giant & my daughter is a lucky lil girl I’ll never know?
How tall was your father?
6’0 see genes a mystery? Lol maybe my mom cheated. ? I have his amazingly dark blue eyes though?
Bring on the short guys!! I had given up on dating, but this post has convinced me to try internet dating again. I had no idea there is a whole group of guys just waiting for girls. I stand at 5’0 and think all the gents that are 5’6 and under are the perfect height for me. Now to find one that likes a short, ‘curvy’ single mom…
Love the blog, keep the laughs coming!
Couldn’t disagree with you more Bee. My husband is 6′ 3 and I’m 5’1. I used to have all these short worthless and repulsive losers come up to me just because I was short and they had the nerve to think I’m in their league? PLEASE! Do us all a favor short men and jump off a bridge. I’m not superficial really, but would it be too hard for someone to make a short guy repellent? Thank god I have my husband:). Works just as well.
haha that’s so cruel…. yeah a taller man but seriously more than a foot taller . I hope ur baby weighs 12 lbs. u lil slut! I guess u spin like the gapped, wide open piece of shit slut you are! Taller girls are ACTUALLY tight Mmm mm I’ve noticed ? U minis are gapped as fucked hoes who like it big & show the results after you are DUMPED… Haha
Gentlemen. Don’t put too much effort into women like Sarah either. I know some hot, sexy, short women that would gladly take her on and pummel her into submission in defense of short people. Good women appreciate men of all heights and are thankful and respectful when a man shows them interest, even if it’s playful flirting. The smart ladies feed off this attention and the nicer ones are appreciative at the same time they’re gettin’ some “eye-love.” Nobody is in nobody’s league. Chicks who have leagues are often the unhappiest and the least fun in the bedroom. They have nothing to offer because they’ve spent most of their lives in front of the mirror. They ain’t no different from the next girl when they strip to the bones, except that they can’re reciprocate pleasure when they are already too into themselves and full of themselves. Don’t get fooled into wanting to be in her twisted life picture. Don’t glamourize the beast that she is. I feel sorry for her husband if his height is all he is to her, even if she is hot. She is still nothing, based on what she’s said here.
Sometimes I run into a lady that says, “I’m too tall for you.”
My reply, “We’re the same height laying down.”
Of all the possible deal breakers out there, IMO height is probably one of the dumbest. And really it’s not just coming from the women. I know lots of shorter guys who always assume there’s no point to going after a taller woman, as well as taller women who wish guys wouldn’t have that attitude.
And to be fair, I had that attitude once upon a time too (I’m 5’6″). I just thought it would be “weird.” Then one day I found myself basically targeted by a woman who was 5’10″. You know what I found out? It seriously makes NO difference whatsoever. I get the whole attraction aspect and that people have different attitudes about stuff, but for something to reach instant-dealbreaker status, this is kind of absurd.
At the risk of seeming a bit too blatant with the self-promotion here, a few months ago I wrote a blog post of my own on the subject, comparing the question of height to the nearest equivalent I can think of with men – boobs. Feel free to check it out: http://undertheporkpiehat.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/a-question-of-height-and-boobs/
I’m 5’7 on a good day. I agree with your sentiments. I wouldn’t worry about it though. 90 percent of people out there aren’t date-able. As the late Moondog said “Do your thing”.
Women are not the only ones to blame…a lot of the comparisons/pressure men face are from other men. Starting from their locker room days with other boys.
Women are chosen by their physical attributes in the dating game so why not men on their height? Men can make up for looks or height with personality/humor/security factors. It doesn’t work the other way around…a good joke won’t change the mind of a man who doesn’t already find the woman attractive.
Men and women both have their preferences while dating BUT men are more likely to compromise their standards if the possibilty of sex gets thrown in.
@Andrea
Andrea says:
“Women are not the only ones to blame…a lot of the comparisons/pressure men face are from other men. Starting from their locker room days with other boys.”
2Short4u:
No. Height restrictors (generally “restricted” to females) are the ONLY ones to blame for their voluntary action of “restricting”.
It is not men who put “must be this tall to contact me” on their online ads. It is the height restrictor that does this. This doesn’t translate to women in general either as intolerance to that degree isn’t quite so pandemic. However, when one is so afflicted, it can be severe enough to cause all sorts of rationalization and deflection in attempts to defend the behaviour.
As far as “comparisons and pressure”, it is doubtful that men preclude other men based solely on a height threshold (where did we ever hear or see of “must be this tall to be part of this men’s group”?) This sounds more like the projection of how young girls behave amongst their peerage.
It’s difficult to include organized sports (even WITH specific requirements for sports that are artificially geared towards certain attributes) since most (if not all) such sports have “try-outs”. Since you mention “locker rooms”, please demonstrate which sports have “must be this tall to try out”.
If one is talking about “what boys do”, that is essentially equating the thought process of height intolerants to adolescent behaviour. On this we agree: height intolerance is childish.
Even if such discrimination existed amongst their peers, one “wrong” does not exonerate another. Read on…
Andrea says:
“Women are chosen by their physical attributes in the dating game so why not men on their height?”
2Short4u:
This is the “tu quoque” fallacy (“you do it too”.)
It is not correctly applied since it isn’t substantiated. Few men (if any) openly (or even subversively) have a restriction based on an involuntary and immutable trait such as height (Big bxxbs? Mythology. Blonde? Mythology. Barbie Doll? Mythology.)
Is there even a common “restriction” that men apply? No. Hardly.
Men do rate potential mates based on physically attractiveness. However, they rarely if ever have a restriction based on a, you guessed it, “involuntary and immutable” trait. Go through the list running through your mind and you will not realistically find ONE “trait” that men demand that potential mates MUST exceed or fall below.
In all practical sense, people can’t make themselves any taller. People CAN make themselves more attractive.
So, that is “why not”.
Andrea says:
“Men can make up for looks or height with personality/humor/security factors. It doesn’t work the other way around…a good joke won’t change the mind of a man who doesn’t already find the woman attractive.”
2short4u:
The intolerance can be deep enough that it creates exclusion (and not just a preference.)
There is no “making up” when one is not even invited to the contest. That is what a height restriction is. It has nothing to do with the personality, comedy, security, etc of the candidate. They are banned from examination.
It doesn’t come to working the “other way around” since these “factors” of attractiveness are all things that practically every woman can work on (for example, even currently effective and extreme glandular issues can be controlled by modern medicine.) You don’t need a “good joke” if you have done the work (yes it is WORK for most people) to be as attractive as possible in the first place (and these traits do NOT include immutable ones nor are they so stringently judged to be used as restrictions.)
There is no pill, or special diet or lifestyle change for height.
Andrea says:
“Men and women both have their preferences while dating BUT men are more likely to compromise their standards if the possibilty of sex gets thrown in.”
2short4u:
This is just a deflection.
It has been mentioned on almost every discussion on this topic (and probably several times in this blog and it’s predecessor) that it is a “RESTRICTION”. It is NOT merely a “preference.” Whether one realizes it or not, this is the typical euphemistic deflection to make a prejudice seem more innocuous.
Most people (men or women) have preferences, but height intolerants have height RESTRICTIONS. Since this irrational aversion to a lack of height is practically a female behaviour, we cannot couch it as a similarity between the sexes.
What? Men are more apt to compromise “standards”? Neither gender as a whole is any more or less honourable if bargains are perceived to be available. Be it football tickets, food, precious stones, automobiles, clothing, cash, rare opportunity or access, people will relax “standards” to close a deal. If you believe men are more prone to this variance, feel free to provide some evidence.
In contrast, the evidence that “height intolerance” in women is far more prevalent than any equally irrational behaviour in men (and there really isn’t any parallel) is easily supported by what we see in online dating sites.
@ everbody…
2short4u
While this latest post being responded to may seem sensible, we have demonstrated how it really isn’t. As such, it typifies the irrationality and deflective arguments used to defend height intolerance (or any intolerance for that matter.) Again, we are attacking the post and not the poster.
It is also interesting to see how it is a gateway to more “extremist” beliefs.
Just have a look at some of the caustic comments from height intolerants here. See how proud they are of their prejudice and how passionately they must vilify their objects of disdain. This speaks of significantly low self-esteem. That is the true nature of the irrationality that “defends” intolerance.
If the lady I’m interested in doesn’t “Get” Wes Andserson movies, she is removed from further consideration.
Try being a girl! It’s hard we are judged by men, women & the media 24/7. We have one preference, you men have millions. We actually want love not sex. Short guys apparently just are not getting their fare share. I see short men who seem to get their’s. I’m not sure any of this is true. However I do notice a trend that uglier, fatter, less attractive girls seem to have better, longer term relationships? I don’t know why?
@kailani
Kailani says:
March 21, 2012 at 2:38 am
Try being a girl! It’s hard we are judged by men, women & the media 24/7.
2Short4U:
No. This is just the same old deflection.
The media creates an ideal to which women attempt to match. It also creates a standard for an ideal man to which some women revere to an extreme. Unless you are trying to get a position within the media industry, it doesn’t “judge” you.
Men have expectations that can and will be influenced by media standards. However, these are far less the slave to the media than a lot of women’s (especially the height intolerants) ones. As it as been mentioned, the “Barbie doll”, the “big bxxbs”, “vixen” must-haves are all myths which are constantly conjured up by those attempting to defend height aversion. As this nothing more than the usual defence utilizing the logical fallacy of “you too” (two wrongs making a right,) it is inadequate. Men will judge, but it is rarely (if ever) on an innocuous, immutable and involuntary trait. (More on this “shortly”.)
Women judge each other quite harshly. We agree on that. However, allowing peer pressure to dictate ones “preference” to the point that the “preference” is illogical and is really a “restriction” is indicative of a weakness in character.
It may be “hard”, but requiring effort is not mitigation for irrationality.
Kailani says:
March 21, 2012 at 2:38 am
We have one preference, you men have millions.
2Short4U:
“We” as in height intolerants? No. Height intolerants do not have one “preference” they have one “restriction.” This obfuscation has been pointed out in the very post you responded to. To repeat it is really just proof of how one requires a mantra to hide from the truth.
Men have millions? Men have no greater an expanse in desire towards ideals in mate selection than women. However, the topic isn’t really about having affinity for positive scores. Its about having ridiculous views driving a prejudice. The whole concept of being so abhorrent of a characteristic to the point of having a restriction is about irrationality and immaturity.
Try and name ONE parallel to height restriction that men have. Remember, this restriction has to be applied to a trait that is involuntary, immutable and essentially has no bearing on the abilities of the individual. Be honest. You can’t.
Kailani says:
March 21, 2012 at 2:38 am
We actually want love not sex.
2Short4U:
You’d think that a healthy relationship would need both. If you mean to say that women want more than just sexual encounters (and that many man only want “sex”) that may not even be correct.
North American society has come a long way in that many more women can have careers that provide enough income that they needn’t depend on a man for financial support. With that, we find that a trend towards women only wanting men for sexual relations is on the increase. The “boy toy” is something that is happening more often now. Hence, women as a whole are no more or less noble in the pursuit of gratification.
Certainly we cannot speak for all men, but in general men are as desirous of love and respect as women are. This attitude of “men are only after sex” is more wishful thinking (in that one can control a man this way.) People should respect oneself and others (as in giving others something to respect.) That goes a long way in growing past this type of negative (and unfounded) stereotype.
Kailani says:
March 21, 2012 at 2:38 am
Short guys apparently just are not getting their fare share.
2Short4U:
Online? They definitely are ostracized, but as far as a “fair share”, most of those having “height restrictions” are hardly something to be shared. In the real world, the prejudice exists, but it’s far less of a problem.
Kailani says:
March 21, 2012 at 2:38 am
I see short men who seem to get their’s. I’m not sure any of this is true.
2Short4U:
Well, that would be disingenuous at best. It’s pretty easy to find height restrictions in many female online dating profiles.
Kailani says:
March 21, 2012 at 2:38 am
However I do notice a trend that uglier, fatter, less attractive girls seem to have better, longer term relationships? I don’t know why?
2Short4U:
How is any of that related to the topic?
Cus ugly girls are eeeezzzz & guys only look at body,not the face & fat is sort of the “new skinny”… Plus ethnicity is the “new white”…
Was that one whole sentence?
I’m 5’7 and my height isn’t an issue for me, but I do stay in shape and am highly educated.
Yes, MANY American women are obsessed about height, but in my experience it’s usually the women who come from the lower and lesser educated levels of American society. I’ve had great success in my sex life with GORGEOUS women from Costa Rica, Brazil, Columbia, Czech Republic, Japan, and Eastern Europe. My advice to American men under 6’2 is to just travel to other countries such Brazil, Costa Rica, Poland, Monaco, and Columbia. American women have the reputation for being near Hitler-sympathetic in their perspectives of what a good man should look like when it’s no secret that they themselves rank among the world’s fattest and dumbest of women. Believe or not, the world has many definitions of what perfection is. Yes, American man are judgmental too, but they are far more forgiving than their counter parts and the statistics prove it; American women have more rights, more freedoms, and more money than any other women in their world, yet they file the most divorces, cheat on their male partners the most, have the most abortions, and have the least respect for traditional family values. Pretty awful values in action. The data seems to imply that the most privileged women in the world, are also the most ungrateful and cruel. American men on the hand are in high demand by millions of healthy beautiful women from countries that admire them and that can measure a strong man in more ways than one. My advice is to just travel like interesting men, and enjoy being the sexiest men on earth by default of nationality. Cheers fellas and happy hunting.
Tall, short, fat, skinny, what does it matter? I just don’t want to be with a woman who says “anyways” or “very unique”. My ex- will not date anyone who ends a sentence with a preposition.
By the way, just found your site and it’s the funniest shit I’ve read in years. Thanks!
I’m 5’8 my x bf was 5’6 the truth is people’s commentary on me being too tall for him got me down & that’s why I moved on. My new new bf is 6’2 and 230 lbs. and not half the man of my ex but everyone else sees it as acceptable so there is the problem.
I love how this blog for short guys (me) ends up with women making it about themselves. Go find another blog, please, this one is taken.
On a related note, the dwarf from “Game of Thrones” is my hero! My brother from another mother!
Jettn’
It’s actually not a blog for short guys? It’s a commentary in a situation by one tall man. It seems that ppl can comment their thoughts as they wish. Go first 1st amendment!
@Rosier
Rosier says:
April 9, 2012 at 4:19 am
It’s actually not a blog for short guys? It’s a commentary in a situation by one tall man.
2Short4U:
Rather facetious is that not? While it is a commentary, the SUBJECT of the commentary is pretty clear. How that subject was initially delivered (as a commentary) is inconsequential.
Jettn’s observation is exacting. Many attempts have been made to hijack this conversation with detailed stories on the mating challenges of taller women (even though these challenges have been repeatedly shown to be neither as prevalent nor as dire as that of short guys in online situations.) As well as trying to crowd out the real subject, it’s also a form of “shaming” to suppress dialogue (Hey, you think YOU have it tough, well, I have it just as bad, but I’m not complaining as loudly…)
The truth is that height intolerance is so advanced in some that they think it’s OK to badger others this way. Does anyone still believe that prejudice is not a product of immaturity and low self-esteem?
This type of behaviour provides evidence that some will resort to harassment when rational argument is not available. It also speaks volumes about the “it’s all about me” attitude that pervades the mindset of those who think that a relationship is well, “all about me.” Lol.
Rosier says:
April 9, 2012 at 4:19 am
It seems that ppl can comment their thoughts as they wish.
2Short4U:
Well, that would not be evident in what the blog master has stated here. It is doubtful that people can post whatever they want. If they could, this would be no different than a typical un-moderated forum (F-Bombs, ad hominem, threats, etc.)
Chances are, the moderator here allows some of these off-topic posts so that the true nature of those who defend height intolerance can be exposed in the best way possible: voluntary display of their thoughts and tactics. For that, we applaud this gatekeeper.
Rosier says:
April 9, 2012 at 4:19 am
Go first 1st amendment!
2Short4U:
If this were meant to celebrate how the 1st amendment protects the right to voice whatever is on one’s mind, it would be misapplied.
While the amendment protects the freedom of speech, it does not extend such liberty of diatribe to include things such as the promotion of falsehoods or incitement of hate or intolerance. Here’s a handy reader-friendly guide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions
Of course, the perceived relative mildness in consequence of this situation (no one is losing life or limb through this prejudice… at least not that we know of) keeps most of the retained hostile posts safe from any real persecution. This lack of exposure is unfortunate since the posts of the few brave souls that mention their experiences of being systematically marginalized show that it can be really painful.
People who may not directly feel this isolation will find it easy to ignore. People who don’t want to admit they are part of the promotion of this prejudice will often try to shut down dialogue (be it by ridicule or by harassment.)
But bullying is bullying. As such, bullying in general is not so invisible anymore. Judgments in recent landmark cases have shown that.
So while one has freedom to expression, this freedom is still intentionally constrained by the law. In any case, the “law” here is still the blog master.
@everybody
2Short4U:
It is striking to note that many still try to defend intolerance by deflection and subterfuge (like pretending the subject matter isn’t clearly defined) rather than really delving into why such dysfunction exists.
Fortunately, when things are “defended” in this way, the truths are quite easy to see.
I’ve followed this thing silently for a while. My thoughts unappreciated as they may be…… It’s hard being different. It’s hard being lonely. Life is superficial, sad and crazy. Self confidence issues make you unwanted & unhappy. They are uncontrollable though! Dating is horrible! Relationships suck anyway! People are cruel! Some people win and some people lose! Darwinism is hell! It’s
survival of the attractive to others not survival of the attractive! Don’t be a short man, or a tall
woman if you can help it! Perception is EVERYTHING!
I’m a 5’10 man. My first real girlfriend was 5’11. We grew up together. After 7 years we broke up,not because of our inch height difference which never hardly came up. I dated various girls of varying heights but was always more attracted to girls 5’7-6’0, no real reason. I like long legs. I don’t like childlike qualities. I also prefer dark hair & fair skin, preferences are prefrences. Any way two years ago I met a girl (5’11, dark hair, light skinned) and she seemed like a good match. I had put 6’0 on my profile & before we met I fessed up. She said this was a problem but maybe we could “be friends”. For once I didn’t blow off this notion. We actually became friends. After two months, we became more. That inch stopped mattering. Now two years later, we’re expecting our first baby.& getting married in June. We both took achance & things worked out just fine.
Well yehaw. Let’s have a old number 7 dance.
No idea what that means.
After reading through both this post and the previous one, as well as the comments, I feel compelled to put in my two cents.
First off, I have to give kudos to 2short for putting the feelings of every frustrated short man who has tried their damndest to make their way in the dating world. A little about myself: I’m 5′ 2″, 34 years old, and although I’m not in perfect shape, I exercise daily and am well on my way to a fitter look. I do okay for myself, and I don’t think I’m completely hideous in the looks department. I got started late in the game due to family issues, but I think I’m a quick learner, and have had some minor successes. I’m an honest, moral, fun man, just looking for a real relationship that could lead to something more serious. I’ve always known that someday, I would be an awesome father and husband. That being said, I still wake up everyday feeling like the deck is stacked against me. It’s like playing blackjack with a completely different deck as almost everyone else. I get all the low cards, and everyone else has the aces or face cards. Taller men don’t have to talk to women and wonder if all she’s thinking about is how much taller she is than you. I’ve come across multiple occasions in the past week alone where either I’ve been shot down for a lack of height, or I’ve heard a female coworker talking about how a blind date’s lack of height alone precluded him from being worthy of dating again. She literally said, with me in earshot, “It’s a shame. I would’ve probably ended up marrying him if he was half a foot taller.”
2 short is correct. Heightism is one of the last widely accepted forms of discrimination, especially in the dating world. And what’s worse is seeing some of these “women” who have posted here try to minimize our plight due to their own height issues (tall women, I’m looking at you) or those who just decided that short men are flat-out undeserving of life, much less a fulfilling romantic relationship. (How Nazi-like of the latter.) Even worse, when we air our grievances, we’re “Napoleons.” We’re just supposed to sit and accept what life has dealt us, like a world free of this discrimination is impossible. I’m compelled to ask, though: would you have asked the same of Martin Luther King or any other leader of a group persecuted due to a physical trait? Is what they wanted unreachable? I recognize that they fought for institutionalized determination, but those institutions take their cues from the society that created them, right? We can only change the world by changing ideas, misconceptions (tall men protectors, etc.) and behaviors. Short men deserve the same opportunities for partnering that the rest of our society is afforded.
People don’t deserve the “opportunity to partner”. It’s just life. Darwin baby?
That would be the response of someone who is comfortable with the status quo. If everyone did that, we’d still be in the Dark Ages. Social mores aren’t rigid; they can change if there is enough force behind them.
@Rob
2Short4U:
Your compliments are graciously received, my friend. It’s amazing how immature the minds are of those who promote this prejudice. The attempts to silence the dialogue is proof that heightists are very aware of their dysfunction and wish it to remain in the shadows.
As you note, here is a typical example:
@Angel
Angel says:
April 19, 2012 at 6:06 am
“People don’t deserve the ‘opportunity to partner’. It’s just life. Darwin baby?”
2Short4u:
This is just the predicted retreat back to the wholly unsupported claim of “it’s natural instinct.” As it has been discussed many times on this thread alone, such a comment is nothing more than mantra. It is propaganda used to convince oneself that their feelings and actions are “out of their control” and therefore not a reflection of their character (or lack of it.) It’s not. The bias is strictly an invention of their minds.
The truth remains that the vilification of shorter-than-average men by certain women is really the projection of their own perceived inadequacy in the dating game. This need to reject what they see as social outcasts is a reaction to their own feelings of failure. They are rejected for reasons they fool themselves into thinking are happenstance or an unlucky roll of the die (most of the time it is not as “attractiveness” involves self appraisal and work on self-improvement).
Hence, they feel it perfectly fine to do the same to others. It doesn’t even matter if they are relatively attractive either. As long as they feel less attractive then their peers they can be vulnerable to this kind of childish behaviour.
Another thing wrong with that response is that, without prejudice, everyone “deserves” the chance to compete. No one is guaranteed first prize, or even a consolation one, but everyone “deserves” a place on the starting line. One may not get a partner, but to promote any bias in opportunity for one is the very social inequity that we strive to eliminate as we mature from adolescent views.
Its just life? Lol.
I wonder how one would feel about that response when they go to the authorities after being robbed? After all, no one “deserves” to be free from being victimized: Its just life. Monkey see, monkey take is, after all, the way of the animal kingdom.
Darwin, baby?
Darwin’s work was “On the Origin of the Species” not “On the Unoriginal of the Specious”, Lol.
Evolutionary impetus is based on suitably healthy mates and not tied to “must be average height or more.” Furthermore, if we choose this model, females are useful as mates only during the child bearing and child rearing years. After that, they are good only for berry-picking and other sundry duties. If one subscribes to this 100,000 years-ago societal construct, then women would have a lot less say in anything let alone having a civilized discussion about social tort.
Relying on basic “Darwinism”? Have a baby, pick berries or leave the tribe. Don’t speak unless you are spoken to (doesn’t work that well does it now… oh I forgot you aren’t allowed an opinion.)
As tall white woman, I date only large black men. They forgive our height & hope to make basketball player babies. My oldest son is going to heat up the NBA in a year or two. White men are just soooo picky they all deserve to be alone short or tall. Plus they are insecure, depressed and can’t be gentlemen. Just pointing that out! Oh and I’m not hating short men… I’d rather have a tall black man but a short one is better and kinder than ANY white man!
Oh, and I found this sight because my daughters are struggling with their height at ages 15 & 16 as I struggled with mine and I’ve read the comments but trust me & them it’s real hard to be a tall female! I had a hard time as a white one, but my daughters (tall & mixed race) are really struggling!
No, it’s not a competition but yeah it’s a heartbreaker! Good luck to us all in this very biased world!!!!
My advise be a gentleman, take on a woman’s insecurities with compassion and all men can find a loving lady! Sadly you all just don’t try!!!!!!!
First off, congratulations on your son.
Second, white men are not all so picky. I’ve messaged short, tall, skinny, plus-sized, white back, Hispanic, etc. and not all ’10′s, as society would call them. So that’s quite the generalization you’re making. Second, what makes you think that there aren’t gentlemen among us already? Do you think we’re all indecent schmucks? And what makes you think that we aren’t trying?
Third, this whole conversation was intended for discussion about how short men are discriminated against in the dating world. By you hijacking the conversation as others have done and making it about the problems you had in dating (which, btw, by the fact that you have at least three kids means you’ve conquered your issue), you are contributing to the problem by denying us the truth of our issue.
You know, what’s worse than the people who just say that short men don’t deserve love are those who are aware of it and are just plain indifferent to it. It has little to do with insecurity on our parts, and a lot to do with dealing with prejudice.
Amen Rob! Nice post.
Andromeda sounds like she’s trying to hide her true feelings of hatred for short men. In playing the race card and the height card, notice that she had to emphazise “large” and “black?” Tall white women like her are no different than the hords of other tall, superficial, heightist women who all of a sudden are “chocolate curious?” Tall white guys have used and abused women like her, so she now turns her attention to the tall black man for support? Her mentioning that short black men are better than short white men is a cheap way of saving face. One short guy better than the other is irrelevant in her world because she’s still a heightist. How can she not be with all the NBA garbage stuff and tall baby making crap she’s spewed here?
I feel sorry for her daughters to have a mother like her that would colour their minds with such nonsense and prejudice. On second thought, I don’t really feel sympathy for her children unless they wake up themselves and understand the negative impact their mother will have on their future adult relationships. She’s programming her daughters to believe race and height are important values when choosing a partner. You wonder why the divorce rate is climbing steadily? Look no further than Andromeda. Women like Andromeda and her offspring justifiy my lack of faith in the future of society.
Also, knowing that she hates shorter white guys more than she hates shorter black guys make we wonder how much hatred she has for short Asian guys or short Latino guys? BTW Andromeda, insecure women are unnattractive. Insecure women carry a permanent measuring stick and let whatever pair of high heels from her shoe rack choose the men for her to date. Insecure, height anal women don’t make the best partners because they need his height to feel confident about themselves. One more thing, I never thought that being a gentleman is predicated on height or skin colour. I’ve always been a gentleman and I don’t have to try because my loving parents raised me to be one. Hopefully you will consider raising your daughters to be polite, respectful, curtious, and open minded. Not shallow, ignorant, pretentious and narrow minded.
I’m 5’8” and cute and a girl. My bf is same height. I don’t need a guy to be taller than me, just BIGGER than me. I agree (although it’s cliche) there’s something innate or evolutionary about it. He weighs 30 kilos more than I do (I’m slim.) I like being picked up and held like a baby in a guy’s arms. If you are 5’5” and can do that, I will buy you a drink. I also think it’s fun to wear heels and have a guy shove his face in my tits and motor boat them, provided he lavishes me with praise on how pretty my body is; ) I have flaws myself. But I’m considered “weird” and generally men don’t notice me. I’m a bit awkward and not the “hot” girl in the room who every guy is drawn to, but I’ve got a good heart. I agree we should try to judge each other less. Notice us slightly shy girls and see what you get ; )
I thought twice before writing here because I saw the level of animosity & competition between tall women & shorter than average men. I thought I’d throw in my 2 cents. I’m not a heightist. I have dated short men. I was trying to point out that there are many sad prejudices in the world. As a tall women I have been laughed at, embarrassed, ridiculed, and so on. I have also had bad reactions for dating black men and having biracial children.Whatever is different is ridiculed! My son is going to be NBA material, it was just a fact. It makes no person better? Some men have been attracted to that aspect of me, the breeding big boy aspect. I’ve hated it and liked it. If he makes it, I’ll really like it. I was truly trying to give my opinion to unhappy with height people of either gender. Black men have treated me better (short and tall), so I said so. No value judgement, just facts. I raise my daughters with open minds and they are being crushed by a cruel world & have broken hearts. It’s a hard world! I was agreeing with you mostly, not disagreeing!
Here’s the thing, though: you go from taking your personal experience and use it to make the generalization that we’re all insecure about our heights, and therefore don’t deserve the same fair chance that everyone else gets. I’m not insecure about it at all. I’m me. I’ve come to accept that I will forever be short, and I’m fine with that. If anything, it makes me stand out. My point is, though, that society looks down on short men and denigrates us all. Society considers us inferior, unhealthy, incapable of protecting ourselves, and of lower moral character. What does society consider tall women? Healthy and athletically superior. The funny thing is that if you ask any geneticist what keeps any gene pool healthy, it’s a heterogenous population, one that has all types of people.
I read that yesterday, Vogue magazine well no longer promote a body image that glorifies women that look too skinny. Now imagine, for a second, that if a major fashion magazine that has incredible influence on how women around the world now is telling women how to think about their own body image, that maybe if more media took an interest in our plight, that maybe we could change these misconceptions, characterizations, and generalizations. People say hate the game, not the player. Well, what if we change the rules of the game?
@ANDRomEdA
ANDRomEdA says:
May 4, 2012 at 4:15 am
I thought twice before writing here because I saw the level of animosity & competition between tall women & shorter than average men. I thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.
2Short4u:
That would be suspiciously insincere if one has actually read this thread even superficially. Why? It’s because there is neither any evidence of animosity nor evidence of competition between tall women and shorter-than-average men. No. Against being a harasser? Yes, but for being a tall woman? No.
One is merely trying to incite a general hostility between taller-than-average women and shorter-than-average men (an animosity that doesn’t exist) in order to derail this topic. To surreptitiously misconstrue a deserved disdain for the constant badgering of a few posters (or really perhaps one consistently pretending to be yet another tall female with tall children) as a feud between distinct groups is typical of the harassment tactics that intolerants use.
Competition?
As Rob has mentioned, even YOU admit that tall women are revered as healthy breeding stock. Contradiction is always a hallmark of deceit.
It has been repeatedly explained how any bias against taller women is a whole order of magnitude less than the systemic marginalizing that shorter men face (especially in the online dating world.) The disingenuousness in ignoring this well-supported observation (be it by pretending to be yet another curiously similar poster or not) gets more obvious with each attempt.
Lol. Perhaps trying a name that starts with another letter, or, choosing fictional offspring with different ages from the previous avatar might help. However, people will probably still see through the paper-thin veil. Writing style, which reflect the underlying character is hard to hide.
Often fabrications carry an element of truth since stories are easier when they revolve around some personal experience.
It could well be that the real poster is the 15 year old teenager who is indeed struggling with some body image and social issues (That 15 year old is a consistent character in practically every “tall girl with kids” avatar so far.) Furthermore, unlike the innate trait of adult height, people who can’t admit that they are the cause of their own issues will often harass those they see as suitable targets (in this case “shorter men”) in an attempt to “fit in.” (“Hey! If I have contempt for what I think others see as outcasts, I’ll be more like the popular group!”) This is why the defence of height intolerance often manifests as this type of bullying.
ANDRomEdA says:
May 4, 2012 at 4:15 am
I’m not a heightist. I have dated short men. I was trying to point out that there are many sad prejudices in the world. As a tall women I have been laughed at, embarrassed, ridiculed, and so on. I have also had bad reactions for dating black men and having biracial children.Whatever is different is ridiculed!
2Short4u:
Merely claiming to not be something cannot negate the effects of acting like something. This behaviour has been covered above. While one speaks of having “dated short men” (couched as if it is some sort of critically acclaimed act of charity,) it is in contrast to the current “I date only large black men” statement only one post earlier.
Trying to point out that there are many sad prejudices in the world is the same old dismissal of trying to bury the marginalizing of shorter-than-average men as “just another social tort.”
As has been mentioned (and you did allude to having at least perused this thread,) this slyly attempts to ignore the relative magnitude and prevalence of height intolerance in comparison to other discrimination. Even if the prejudice was somewhat equal (which is isn’t) applying such a “perspective view” is just a form of the “perfect world” fallacy. That is to say, since there is no “all-correcting perfect solution” we shouldn’t focus on solutions for only some of the problems.
Whatever is different is ridiculed?
No, this is another dismissal. Six-pack abs are very rare and essentially different. So are different coloured left and right eyes. I have my doubts that they are ridiculed just for being different (or even seen as something undesirable at all.)
You may have well been laughed at or ridiculed for being tall, but how many “must be this tall to be considered, sorry, hee hee, that’s just a me” statements do you come across on a dating site? Until you fully comprehend how that attitude is nothing but bigotry, you can’t pretend to understand. How many shorter-than-average men attempt to hijack blogs on the plight of Taller-than-average women? Please. I challenge you to point all of us to one such event.
It’s like not only having no compassion for a wheelchair bound person when they can’t navigate a curb, it’s the further insult of dismissing their plaint by saying, “hey it’s tough for everyone, get over it. Be funny. Try going to the gym. It’s your Napoleon attitude.”
ANDRomEdA says:
May 4, 2012 at 4:15 am
My son is going to be NBA material, it was just a fact. It makes no person better? Some men have been attracted to that aspect of me, the breeding big boy aspect. I’ve hated it and liked it. If he makes it, I’ll really like it. I was truly trying to give my opinion to unhappy with height people of either gender. Black men have treated me better (short and tall), so I said so. No value judgement, just facts. I raise my daughters with open minds and they are being crushed by a cruel world & have broken hearts. It’s a hard world! I was agreeing with you mostly, not disagreeing!
2Short4u:
Your post lords the implied “fact” that your son is tall enough to be considered for the NBA yet pretend to be compassionate to the trials of shorter-than-average men. This is more like an attempt to lightly camouflage a stab at them.
No value judgements?
Unless you have dated a statistically significant number of tall, short, this ethnicity or that ethnicity man (and that would have to be a pretty large figure,) your conclusions are based on nothing BUT a biased judgement. The deliberate and repugnant racial stereotyping in your first post is hardly the product of an “open mind.” However, it does help drive home the connection between heightism, low self-esteem and immaturity.
So, yes. In that sense, you are “agreeing” with your opposition.
@ Everyone
2Short4u:
Note the “Unhappy with height people” comment.
The shorter-than-average men posting their stories here are not “unhappy with [their] height.” They are unhappy with how they are marginalized because of an innate and immutable trait, but few if any are personally unhappy with their stature. This Freudian slip betrays a feeling that it’s the victim of intolerance that is at fault (and largely because THEY hate themselves) rather than those who hold the prejudice: a typical mindset of the intolerant.
Projection of low self-esteem is a trademark of irrational intolerance.
The post also attempts to propagate the myth that shorter-than-average men will produce shorter-than-average offspring (ignoring that diet in early childhood has a lot more to do with eventual adult height.)
There are serious doubts cast by this post as to the sincerity of claimed compassion to the mating challenges faced by shorter-than-average men. If anything it shows how some so passionately project self-loathing on their objects of contempt that they will continue to conjure up characters as a way to badger and denigrate those they irrationally deem as “unworthy.”
Irrational prejudice is a pretty ugly trait.
Women do not wish to be thought of as “healthy” or “athletically superior”. Those are both manly traits! Tall women like most would like to be thought of as sexy, pretty, & feminine. That is a tall women’s hex!!!!
I never said I thought short men should have low self esteem? Good for you. At this point in my life, I too have good self esteem, not based on cultural ideals. Self esteem is a gift not brought to or grasped by many women, certainly not tall ones. I imagine it might be that way for short men as well.
If I had $1 for the questions I had about basketball when I was young, I’d be rich. No I’m not sporty! My daughter’s are not either. We are girly girls who want to feel feminine & yes with hatred, tv jokes, and judgement it is very hard!
I imagine it is the same for really short men as well.
I modeled extensively when I was younger, and yes the fashion industry is indeed demanding. I’m a little sad because I fear if they do away with tall and slender girls we’ll be left a “new ideal”. I’m guessing she will have a fake butt, a lot of fillers, and be minuscule? After that something new will come around? The truth is in the 80′s it was all about boobs & blonde, Now it’s all brunette & butt… Women will never all be able to live up to a ideal. We’re just people..If shorter men feel that awful feeling of being unacceptable by societies standard then I empathize! That’s I think what many of the tall women here have been trying to get across! But if you want to call it “hijacking” then so be it?
It is a hard world that we are so harshly judged. Having experienced on-line dating, profiling is best left to crime detectives and the like lol. And for all you short (which is such relative term) gentlemen out there…take heart…I met my boyfriend at work…in person. SO OBVIOUSLY I knew he was 4 10. And very slender. He’s little- okay. I’m only 5 5 myself and he refers to me as so tall!…so he’s a fun height for me and I am for him…he says the view is fabulous from that angle as well as when we are face to face lol. We are very comfortable with who we are and how we are made…and we know we are the butt of many a joke. We laugh because we know how much pleasure we take in each other and don’t care…Somebody calls him shorty it’s no different than calling me Redhead. It’s a fact. Any one with any kind of experience should know there are advantages, not just disadvantages, to all heights, shapes, and sizes…cruel people make lousy lovers…I say have fun with who you are and how you and your love are made…anything less is missing out! ;)
@Andromed-ila
2Short4u:
As usual, you have avoided acknowledgment of the faults in your foundation (that many have pointed out) and continue to post the same irrational arguments. This is nothing more that the continuation of the harassment campaign of a typical intolerant. Excellent. Please continue.
In greater detail…
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
Women do not wish to be thought of as “healthy” or “athletically superior”. Those are both manly traits! Tall women like most would like to be thought of as sexy, pretty, & feminine. That is a tall women’s hex!!!!
2Short4u:
Within the context of being attractive as mating material, either gender would be happy to be thought of as “healthy” or “athletically superior.” Furthermore, “healthy” is pretty much gender agnostic and athleticism is not to be mistaken as strictly masculine (one needs to be particularly athletic to be successful as a ballerina for example.) So… WRONG.
Sexy, pretty and feminine? None of these traits are mutually exclusive of being healthy and athletic (although being healthy is probably an underlying part of those three ideals.) WRONG, again.
A tall women’s hex? Hardly. There are many tall women that are considered to be sexy, pretty and feminine. In the CONTEXT of this blog, height intolerants automatically exclude shorter-than-average men and in essence consider them to be inferior and un-manly (as far as mating is concerned.) We have seen many examples of this. So… your concept is WRONG again.
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
I never said I thought short men should have low self esteem? Good for you.
2Short4u:
Nowhere has anyone accused you of saying that “you though short men should have low self-esteem.” Couching this as a rhetorical question is just purposely misrepresenting your critic in order to refute them: the standard “straw man” argument fallacy.
But, if comprehensive challenges have caused a misconstruing of the comment about “projection of low self-esteem” to mean this, please review the paragraph to understand it in context.
Incidentally, people who can’t admit they have erred, and instead choose to ignore compelling information to repeat fallacious mantra or employ straw-man arguments (usually to save face) are, you guessed it, likely suffering from low self-esteem.
People who go as far as creating new avatars with the same yet relatively rare back-story to create an illusion of a greater support for one’s claims, well, even you can guess correctly to what level of self-esteem that behaviour reflects. Lol.
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
At this point in my life, I too have good self esteem, not based on cultural ideals. Self esteem is a gift not brought to or grasped by many women, certainly not tall ones. I imagine it might be that way for short men as well.
2Short4u:
Really. This blog is all about you (…not.)
If someone has to resort to a self-proclamation instead of relying on audience members to judge on their own, it is unlikely that their own assessment is accurate. In fact, the actions of repeating fallacy in spite of it being exposed, misrepresenting opposing views in order to refute, using hackneyed stereotypes to support arguments, etc. These are the actions of adolescent self-righteousness and hardly that of well-adjusted adulthood.
Self-esteem is a “gift” one gives to oneself.
It begins with realizing that irrationally “hating” is a defence mechanism. It has a chance to grow when one realizes that bullying and harassing never nourishes the hunger of wanting to be accepted as superior. All that does is allow the bully to avoid the truths (one of those truths being that THEY are the problem, not the victim of their ridicule.) Repeating fallacious mantra is the manifestation of that avoidance.
Stop believing in the lies: that goes a long way towards actually gaining some self-esteem.
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If I had $1 for the questions I had about basketball when I was young, I’d be rich. No I’m not sporty! My daughter’s are not either. We are girly girls who want to feel feminine & yes with hatred, tv jokes, and judgement it is very hard!
2Short4u:
Lol. When you were younger as in when you were 14 just last year?
Wanting to “feel” a certain way shouldn’t be dependent on how a small percentage (people callous enough to poke fun that way are few but vocal) of others view you. If you are a feminine creature, than you should feel every bit a feminine creature. It’s no stretch to see that practically every short-than-average guy “feels” like a man (Which is probably why they would take offence to being falsely viewed as not being one.) No amount of hatred, TV jokes and judgment from peers should make a guy “feel” anything less than that.
With reasonably intact self-esteem, how others denigrate will neither affect your self-image nor make it difficult to maintain it. Really. It’s not much of a challenge when one actually has strength in character. Since one admits that it’s “very hard,” the claimed “good self-esteem” is probably not true. (Yes, you said “we” so you were not just referring to your “daughters.”)
Again, one can be “sporty” and feminine too: they are NOT mutually exclusive traits.
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
I imagine it is the same for really short men as well.
2Short4u:
I can’t speak for directly for “really short men”, but it is doubtful that, in general, they have anywhere near the fragility of character that you speak of. Of course, when they don’t exhibit this weakness, they apparently have a “Napoleon Complex.”
Firstly, there’s little evidence of really short men hanging out on “really taller women” blogs in order to surreptitiously denigrate them (as in pretending to “support” their cause, but in reality taking a jab by lording the relative “attractiveness” of invented characters over them.) Secondly, few if any shorter-than-average men are soliciting for advice. Thirdly, in general, they are especially not seeking pity (it is clear that their detractors do though as we have seen time and time again.)
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
I modeled extensively when I was younger, and yes the fashion industry is indeed demanding. I’m a little sad because I fear if they do away with tall and slender girls we’ll be left a “new ideal”. I’m guessing she will have a fake butt, a lot of fillers, and be minuscule? After that something new will come around?
2Short4u:
Lol. Same old back-story. But, OK, we’ll play along…
Those “ideals” are just that. They are generally not realistic and the fact that most men are not swayed by the concepts of perfection as set by the fashion industry as far as mate selection is concerned has already been covered. Hence, the hyperbole into the next “ideal” is pretty much irrelevant.
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
The truth is in the 80′s it was all about boobs & blonde, Now it’s all brunette & butt… Women will never all be able to live up to a ideal. We’re just people..
2Short4u:
Fine. Since you feel this needs addressing, prove it. Create a blog of your own about how women shouldn’t be constantly forced to live up this ideal. If you were sincere about it, you’d be spending your time there to spread the word about it.
Coming here to talk about that is just hijacking (though one pretends to not realize that.)
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If shorter men feel that awful feeling of being unacceptable by societies standard then I empathize! That’s I think what many of the tall women here have been trying to get across.
2Short4u:
Once again, actions speak louder than words.
If one truly has empathy, then practice that empathy by allow the shorter-than-average men to speak out on their challenges without harassment. Accept the fact that the challenges of taller-than-average women are nowhere as dire or prevalent as that of shorter-than-average men in the online dating scene (as this IS what this blog is about.)
If “many of the tall women here” (or just one or two pretending to be many) were trying to get their empathy across, they wouldn’t continue to ignore it when their fallacious arguments and deflections are pointed out and instead repeat them over and over again.
Andromeda says:
May 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm
But if you want to call it “hijacking” then so be it?
2Short4u:
Nice try but it’s not that easy to dismiss. It’s called “hijacking” because that’s what it is.
Restating the beginning of this response…
As usual, you have avoided acknowledgment of the faults in your foundation (that many have pointed out) and continue to post the same irrational arguments. This is nothing more that the continuation of the harassment campaign of a typical intolerant.
I am a 5’3″ male, and find a lot of the comment on here appalling, but entertaining nonetheless.
First off, maybe I am lucky to say this… I have been with plenty of women. 32 to be exact, and I am 24 years old. The myth that a short male cannot get a woman is exactly that, a myth. Essentially, it often boils down to learned helplessness. Many men (and not just short men) tend to take the first rejection as an assumed constraint that all following instances will resemble the initial rejection. If we all quit after the first (or even hundred) attempts, there are many luxuries that we may still be existing without. If you think discovering electricity, inventing a vehicle, or creating particle printers is easier than finding a woman, my heart goes out to you.
Life is about putting yourself out there and naturally attracting those who find your true qualities to be intriguing; whether it be kindness, ambition, intelligence, or a similar hobby. There are plenty of terrible men and women out there who go for physical traits first, and most end up in the same lonely turmoil as they probably were in their initial state.
Be confident, be independent, and be adventurous. Let others see your ability to look past a simple physical characteristic, and they will follow your lead.
Sure, if I were taller my number may be exponentially higher. However, I could focus on all of the girls I couldn’t swing, or I could pride myself on those that I have. and for those that I couldn’t, I took note on how to approach the next woman.
As far as the original shit comment that Rosa made, she is a typical lonely, judgemental bitch with a slew of father issues. Girls who have been raised as respectable women have the ability to find the true beauty in any situation or person that they encounter. They may not be as prevalent as we may like, but genuine women do exist. Go get em’ boys. Perception is everything, and perception is something that we can manipulate accordingly. Act tall and confident, and others around you shrink.
There’sAlwaysMore says “genuine women do exist.”
I won’t disagree with him because they do.
There are lots of “genuine” heightist women who are extra proud of who they are and classify everyone else who doesn’t measure up as second class. Mostly from my experience they are the taller-model types who act like their sh*t doesn’t stink! Short women are just as bad in their disdain for short men and they wear just as big a capital “B” hat as the tall girls. There are lots of “genuinely” superficial women who have not a care in this world for any man shorter than they are and wish these little guys could be eradicated from the earth. There are also lots of “genuinely” evil, average height to tall women who take tremendous pride in being hurtful to short men and women too.
Short guys who act tall are more likely to get labelled as Napoleanic or annoyingly aggressive. I don’t encouarge short guys to act tall but to keep your head up and do your best to enjoy the world without focusing on making a woman happy or needing one in your life. If you live your life with a positive kick in your step while treating others with kindness, people and more importantly, women will want to surround you. It’s called positive energy. Heightists women rarely have positive energy because her personal spark is always predicated on the man’s height and not her own energy.
Most tall girls started out being not just close to 6 ft, but that height in a sea of 5 ft middle schoolers. That awkwardness and insecurity about just being BIGGER than everyone else can persist for a long time — sometimes forever. Similar, in a lot of ways, to how short guys can carry insecurity about their size for their whole lives. Short guys and tall girls should be able to share their similar experiences, it’s a shame that just being in each others’ presence triggers that insecurity (hence all the animosity).
@S
2Short4u:
In summary, there is no animosity between Shorter-than-average men and Taller-than-average women (neither here on this blog nor outside in the real world.) This is just an invention of a few (if not a single) poster as an attempt to mire this discussion into a flame-war (as well as surreptitiously dismiss the plaint with the lie that shorter-than-average guys are just being more sensitive than other outcasts.)
The reasons outlined in your post are unsupportive of your argument. Furthermore, being dubious in nature, they betray an agenda to promote the “animosity” misconception.
How the challenges of taller-than-average women differ in both prevalence and magnitude from that of shorter-than-average men has been succinctly laid out numerous times here. To ignore this and continue to attempt crowding out discussion on this blog with these digressions is nothing more than harassment.
Disagree?
We will prove this in detail…
- – - – -
S says:
May 21, 2012 at 7:44 am
Most tall girls started out being not just close to 6 ft, but that height in a sea of 5 ft middle schoolers.
2Short4u:
Middle school surrounds the “growth spurt” period of females (somewhere around their 12th year.) Even after that period, “most” taller-than-average women are about 6 inches taller than their average schoolmates. They are definitely not “6 Ft” when their friends are “5 Ft”. If they were, they would be anomalies that would eventually be far taller than average. Since you qualified your assertion with “most”, it does not include these outliers.
The statement a gross exaggeration at best and is essentially not true. It cannot offer any support to your position.
S says:
May 21, 2012 at 7:44 am
That awkwardness and insecurity about just being BIGGER than everyone else can persist for a long time — sometimes forever. Similar, in a lot of ways, to how short guys can carry insecurity about their size for their whole lives.
2Short4u:
Sure, being 6 inches taller can be cause for being ostracized. It is a “visible” marker that is hard to hide. Then again, so are many other things. These include the immutable like ethnicity and hair type. They may include not as immutable, but practically so, such as relative family financial status, culture or language challenges.
Being outcast can cause one to carry insecurity. However, this is where the argument you present falls apart.
We are talking about the dating challenges of shorter-than-average men with an emphasis on how the online arena has exaggerated these challenges. The main focus of a boy’s life in those years is really about hanging around other boys. Few shorter-than-average boys (none, really) were excluded from group activities because of their height.
Yes. Even in those early years, guys don’t really care about the height of other guys. They certainly do rate each other on their alpha qualities, but take note that it is not “height” that got you on any particular team; it was your skills on the playing field.
No. Shorter-than-average boys do not have an inferiority complex from being shorter than average. In fact, few of the men posting here exhibit any insecurity at all. They are not pleased with how they are marginalized, but they are not insecure about their height. This is more of the projection of the observer’s low self-esteem that has been mentioned.
Again, IT IS THE HEIGHT RESTRICTOR that sets the restriction: it is not this fabricated insecurity of the shorter-than-average man. This irrational dislike for shorter men is a trait of the height restrictor and trying to pin it on some invented “insecurity” of the object of disdain is just the usual “blame the victim” propaganda.
In contrast, height Restrictors carry this insecurity you speak of into their adult lives. That is why they chase trophies and avoid what THEY perceive as a detriment (being seen with “dear gawd!” a shorter-than-average man.) Many will go as far as falsely promoting this voluntary prejudice as an innate trait (“it’s natural instinct”) in order to justify their lack of self-confidence in their own mind.
S says:
May 21, 2012 at 7:44 am
Short guys and tall girls should be able to share their similar experiences, it’s a shame that just being in each others’ presence triggers that insecurity (hence all the animosity).
2Short4u:
Well… the qualifier here is “SIMILAR”.
It has been clearly outlined on numerous occasions how there is a distinct DISSIMILARITY between both the prevalence and depth of negativity experienced by the two groups (shorter-than-average men and taller-than-average women.) To ignore this is just disambiguation in order to create a false defence: the classic straw-man argument.
The challenge to point all readers to SIMILAR cases of taller-than-average women being overtly told to NOT RESPOND to a dating ad has been curiously ignored.
The challenge to provide some evidence that this happens anywhere as often as it does for shorter-than-average men has been equally avoided.
Instead, we have these attempts to invent an animosity that does not exist. However, that isn’t a “shame.” It is an allegory on how some need to avoid truths in order to promote a prejudice (Yes. Applying deflective tactics or being dismissive of the issue is essentially promoting the prejudice.)
To be clear, being in the presence of posters is agnostic of their height or gender. The ONLY insecurity being triggered is that of height restrictors. That is why they persist in attempting to obfuscate the issue.
- – - – -
2Short4u:
In summary, there is no animosity between Shorter-than-average men and Taller-than-average women (neither here on this blog nor outside in the real world.) This is just an invention of a few (if not a single) poster as an attempt to mire this discussion into a flame-war (as well as surreptitiously dismiss the plaint with the lie that shorter-than-average guys are just being more sensitive than other outcasts.)