The following is an email I received from Max D, a loyal reader and Internet dater. Initially, I was very proud…
As per your expert instructions I sought out the perfect first date restaurant. It’s named after an Italian opera, has a nice quiet atmosphere, is close, and is walking distance to drinking places, a huge wine list, and best of all the menu looks like the first page of a three page menu–all appetizers and salads disguised as entrees. Most expensive thing on there is $7.50. The place is such a gem that after a couple of weeks I got to know a bartender there very well as he saw me show up with different ladies. In fact he texts me sometimes afterwards to see how things went.
Look at that. My readers are all growns up! Finding a first date spot with reasonable prices, good location, and the appearance of specialness is no small feat. I still haven’t accomplished it here in LA. This email was making me feel like a proud papa, watching his baby take his first steps toward cheap intoxication and possible lovemaking. It was the sort of thing Rockwell used to paint. Max continued…
The following story is 50% a confession, 40% to shine a favorable light on you and anyone else who has merely split the check, and 10% because it’s actually a good idea and I can’t promise it won’t happen again.
Uh oh. 50% confession? That doesn’t sound good. You realize if you murdered someone I have to alert the authorities, right, Max?
Max's bartender
I recently set up a promising date with a girl who while only had face pictures, did list her body type as ‘athletic’, and mentioned something about running marathons. I thought it would check out, but when she got to the date 10 minutes early and texted me “I’m here.”, I decided to text the bartender to take a covert picture for me. What a professional, right? Unfortunately she was not a moon, she was a space station. Before you judge, honestly tell me what you would have done? Clearly I stood her up.
Noooooo! I’ve created a monster! Taking covert pictures of your date? Calling her a space station? Standing her up because she’s overweight? Is this what my efforts have wrought?! I was disappointed and a little upset. Turns out my baby was actually taking his first steps in the direction of a frat house where he and his buddies promptly made fun of all the fatties.
But then I thought it over. It’s easy to attack Max. Seriously, it is. Go for it, you totally have my blessing. But there are some real issues here too. What would I have done in that situation? I can’t deny that larger-sized women describing themselves as “Athletic and Toned” is a genuine online dating phenomenon. I’ve encountered it numerous times, and honestly, I don’t really get it. Why would you possibly lie about something that is so obviously going to be discovered? I mean, I work out six days a week, but I would never dream of casting myself as “Athletic and Toned” – because I’m not skinny. Athletic, yes? Toned, not on your life. I fit snugly in “About Average”, and am totally cool with that. But I would never dream of overselling my physical appearance, because in the end, it just makes you like so…well…lame. But perhaps there’s confusion over terminology. How about we change “Athletic and Toned” to “The Very Possibility of Seeing My Naked Body Will Turn You On Entirely On Its Own.” Then we’ll all know what we’re talking about, right?
What we mean when we say "Athletic and Toned."
So is it acceptable to stand this woman up, who may have mislead you about her appearance, if you somehow knew in advance? No. ABSOLUTELY NOT. I’ve been stood up before, and honestly, it hurts. You feel like a loser, not being significant enough to the person to warrant even a quick text saying “Sorry, can’t make it tonight.” And that’s what I told Max. You are allowed to not want to go out with somebody, but you’re not allowed to waste their time and make them feel bad about themselves. Send a text and bail out gracefully – or honestly, gracelessly – just so they can get on with their evening. It costs you nothing to send the next, and very likely could save them from having and all-time shitshow of a day, so just be a pal and help a fellow human out. Here was his response…
Yeah, a text may have been a little bit of a tourniquet in this case but by the time I actually had the photo evidence our rendezvous time was minutes away so pretty much anything I would have said seemed in poor taste. I figured it would be easier to make up an emergency story afterwards but she must have gotten the hint because she never asked for an explanation.
She didn’t get the hint, Max, she was fucking embarrassed. And angry. And after the fact, she couldn’t have cared less what your explanation was because she knew you were a dick. Or at least, in this situation, acted like one. While it may have been easier for you to make up a story after the date passed, it’s really not about what’s easier for you. You’re sitting at home on your couch, while she’s standing on a street corner waiting for a guy to walk smiling up to her side. You’ve already got it pretty easy, so how about thinking about her for at least thirty seconds?
That’s what I thought, and that’s what I think. But here’s the thing: Max seems like a relatively normal guy. His emails are well written, he seems serious about meeting someone to date, and obviously he has excellent taste in reading material, so maybe there’s something to learn here. It’s easy to dismiss someone who stands up their date, but it happens all the time. People blow off their dates on a daily basis, believe me, I’ve got the emails to prove it. Why? How do you do that to someone else? We can write these people off as assholes, or we can try to figure out what’s going on. So I asked Max why he did it, and came up with something juicy.
Even grandpa can text!
I knew that I’m shallow enough that the date would have been a waste of time.
Hmmm. Interesting. If you know your own limitations, are you doing your date a favor by not making her endure a pointless hour or two? Maybe. Possibly. Is this woman honestly better off never meeting Max, not spending time with a guy who didn’t want her and couldn’t be convinced otherwise? It’s plausible. Was ditching her, in a way, the noble thing for Max to do, as that way he knew she could write him off as a jerk and never wonder if he was gonna call, if perhaps they could’ve been a good match? It’s an intriguing possibility.
Maybe Max wasn’t so bad after all. Maybe he was just a shallow guy out for something that he wasn’t gonna find, and so he decided to move on. I mean, this bartender guy seems to like him. And the date did mislead him about her appearance, that must’ve pissed him off, right?
I felt a little deceived but I’d say it didn’t factor in, honestly. Athletic is pretty subjective especially when talking about women and for all I know she’s waddled a marathon. The bartender’s already pegged me as a serial dater and is aware of the psych-ops I routinely employ to cultivate first night hook-ups, so to him this incident probably just follows the behavior pattern of a person who’s already earned a corner office in hell.
Oh. No, he’s definitely just an asshole.
Sorry, buddy. Thanks for reading, but you’re on your own on this one.
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE NEED TO STOP LYING ABOUT HOW THEY LOOK ONLINE.
Dear jesus God. I feel bad for this girl but unless this guy is a giant dickbag who only wants to date models, only posting face photos bc you know your body doesn’t line up with your “Athletic” check is pure bs. I feel bad for her, but maybe she’ll start telling the truth from now on.
*Provided, again, this guy isn’t horrible and thinks all girls who aren’t skinny are fat.
No.
It really doesn’t matter what excuse you come up with.
He’s still a sh*t for standing her up.
Ok yes, I think the fact that he didn’t text her was awful, and I have yet to find an awesome restaurant, kinda jealous of that, I normally just meet at coffee shop down the road, I feel that is better, because if she is an ogre then we can just leave and never speak again. I do think lying on your profile is not a good thing, However just treating someone like poo is unacceptable. I have found once in a great while that even an ogre has a awesome soul. Is Max D a dick, I would say YES! Is it bad that the bartender did that and maybe watched the whole time laughing, YES!
I wish I knew the girl I’m a nice guy.
BTW I would date circus Boobs, Would, Max Dick. I think that’s what the D stands for……
I’m a big guy and on Match I post recent, full body pictures and list myself as “stocky” which I think is fair. I also accept that “curvy” is a catch-all and if they don’t post a body picture I assume the worst. If their face pictures are poorly lite or at strange angles I assume the worst. All that being said, I would never stand anyone up. I’ve been stood up three times, twice in the last six months. I have never felt like a bigger loser asshole in my life. I would never put someone else in that situation…
I agree that people should not lie on their profiles but perhaps the best thing for Max to do was to meet the girl and tell her face to face that he did not feel any initial requisite chemistry with her and that he expected her to look completely differently based on her profile pictures. It probably is a difficult thing to do, especially face to face, but I think both sides would have won in the end. Max would come off as an dependable standout guy and the girl may have decided to be more honest in her profile in the future since because of her lie she missed out on getting to know such a great standout guy as Max.
I have to agree, he should have made up some bullshit text mesg and profusely apologized. He could even have texted the bartender to make up something to tell her.
But the misrepresenting one’s looks is BS too. BTW, pro-tip, I know first-hand that a very fat woman (an old GF’s mom) can complete a marathon, so never use that as a barometer on its own. Like the Chef in Apocalypse Now says, “never get out of the damn boat,” well never rely on profiles that only have face pics.
Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.
Somehow, on all of the dates I went on, I only had to deal with one person who had totally lied about their appearance in multiple ways. Well, except for the fact that EVERY man I met consistently lied about their height. I always subtracted 2 inches from a mans stated height so I wouldn’t be surprised when I met in person. That irked me, but it wasn’t a deal breaker. That being said, I also know, based on stories I’ve heard from my dates, that women tend to lie more about their appearance than men. And it’s not just about weight, either. They’ll post pictures of their girl friends instead of themselves, which blows my mind. I simply do not understand that kind of deception because we all know they’re going to find out you’re lying (about your height, weight, etc.) as soon as they meet you in person! And who wants to start off a date with someone who lied to you before they even met you? You’re dooming the relationship to fail before it even starts.
I was always brutally honest. Because after all, if you plan to ever meet anyone in person, you should be yourself. Sure, you might not get as many dates as you’d hoped, but you’ll get better QUALITY dates when you’re honest with yourself (and your potential date). Give people the benefit of the doubt to know you before you assume they won’t want you, and give them a chance to make up their own mind instead of telling them what you think they want to hear. Otherwise, you’re just setting yourself up to be stood up by some dude named Max.
Well the verdict is in and I’m an asshole. It sounds like there is hope for me though. I mean I did use the term “confession” which implies some shred of social conscience and rules me out as a total sociopath. I posed this question in the first place because I’ve read enough to think of the author as a nice fella and class act–If the only difference between him and me is that he would have sent a white-lying text message then I don’t feel too far behind. It seems it was a no-win scenario, next time I’ll try the text. Followed of course by however many other lies and texts it will take when she wants to reschedule and I have to let her down like a gentleman.
To supplement the story: I did tell the bartender that I was just going to sit this one out and he used his insider information to console deactivate the tractor beam, console the space station, and come out of it with a $10 tip. I know it doesn’t help the case for me not being an asshole but everything may have worked out as good as it possibly could have. She got what she would have gotten even if I did show up, my wingman was rewarded for his efforts, and the prize stallion got to sit out an unwinnable race.
I don’t think you’re a total asshole, but this wasn’t going to end well regardless of whether you would have sent a bail-out text or not. I mean, it was obviously hurtful for the woman who got stood up, so that wasn’t very nice of you. However, she lied to you about something very important – her appearance. And if she’s going to lie about that, what else is she hiding?
Yes, the ideal thing would have been to show up and tell her the truth about why you didn’t want to continue the date (face-to-face). She deserved to know that you didn’t appreciate being lied to about her appearance, and that if she expects to have better luck in her dating life, she needs to be honest. But, the world isn’t ideal, and chances are she would not have given you any brownie points for being honest. She would have just chalked you up as some superficial asshole, so you’re going to be the bad guy any way you slice it.
The previous commenter who gave you the “pro-tip” about never relying on profiles that only have face pics? Yeah, I agree. Also, if you’re ever put in this position again, I’d suggest being totally honest. After all, like I said earlier, you’re going to be the bad guy anyway so you might as well at least be honest and not just stand a girl up.
Just so we’re clear, the goal isn’t to get canonized. Who is that “ideal” for? Certainly not me. Exactly where am I supposed to redeem brownie points from a stranger? I stood her up, the author would have taken thirty seconds to send a text, you would have taken thirty minutes to go tell her she’s a liar and too ugly to date. What would be REALLY nice is if I’d have stayed for two hours, shared a drink or two, and told her she’s not my type. Or I could have given her flowers, Jewelry, and a trip to an all inclusive resort to soften the blow.
Point is you have to draw the line somewhere as to what a virtual stranger’s feelings are worth to you. I can be talked from zero seconds up to thirty seconds but lets not get greedy here.
Never believe a picture, even a full body one. I think to accept a picture 100% I’ll need it structured like a ransom picture with today’s newspaper for reference. Whenever I meet a girl, even with full body pics I know I might be getting between 60-90% of what I say in the pictures. They might not be up to date, she might have had a few months on the couch/busy at work and it’s not as toned as it used to be. The one thing I can say is that if she has gotten in better shape, the most recent picture will be the one represented. Girls lying about weight, like guys lying about height, is just something I accept as collateral in online dating.
I have a few hard and fast rules with my own profile. I like to post a pic of my body that shows off my semi-athletic physique, never a myspace shot in the mirror, but most of the time I keep it up to date with pictures of me enjoying athletic pursuits. I had a picture of me doing the Tough Mudder obstacle course for a while, a shot of me playing flag football in a local league, or some other activity where I’m shirtless or wearing an Under Armour. That way when I say Athletic on my profile they know it won’t be a 12 pack with shredded obliques, but at least its not a fat beer gut.
Geez, Max, why so defensive? I was just trying to say that while standing someone up isn’t the best choice, the other options aren’t that great, either. Obviously it sucks to hurt someone’s feelings, but you are correct – that girl was a stranger. So, I get that you would want to consider her feelings less (and not stand her up) vs. doing what you wanted to do (not waste your time since you knew she wouldn’t be a match). I didn’t mean to imply that you were supposed to go over and tell her she was an unattractive liar for 30 minutes, NOR was I implying that you should sit there for 2 hours and buy her drinks and waste your time. I think there would be some sort of happy medium somewhere in-between, but who knows? I guess I just figured that you liked her enough to agree to meet her in person, so there had to be SOMETHING there to make her warrant more than a stranger status?
I have to say, when I first read Max’s email I thought he was a completely shallow asshole. And, now reading all the comments, I still think he is a shallow asshole. But I gotta admit, I also kind of like him (sorry, Max, I’m a straight male). Yes, he’s shallow and kind of a coward but HE KNOWS IT. i think we all can agree that lying about your appearance sucks but i think we also can all agree that standing anyone up, for any reason, sucks more. I never had a problem with people lying about their appearance and I have never lied about my height (although, at 6’1″ i realize i’m in a pretty good boat). but i have gone out with a girl or four that i didn’t find attractive. her pictures were borderline but her emails were nice and i was adult enough to realize that while it is unlikely, you don’t always fall in love with the most gorgeous person at the bar (thank god that works both ways). So, in reference to Max’s specific situation, I think the best plan would have been to go, meet her, and had one drink. then say you had to get going. Just to be clear, you also pay for her $7 drink. sorry but them’s the breaks. Then, the next day you say you had a nice time but that you didn’t feel a connection/spark/etc. That’s it. You don’t lie, you don’t treat another human being worse than you’d like to be treated yourself. Yes, you are out 1/2 an hour of your life and $7 but… that’s the price (literal and figurative) you pay for online dating.
Also, although i find Max’s owning of his shallowness charming, I’d caution you to never speak shit of a woman that turns you down or stands you up. you’ve made your bed so when a woman passes on you or doesn’t even show up, realize that somewhere in the back of your mind, she somehow saw you and didn’t like what she saw.
He’s shallow, my guess is he doesn’t think any women would ever NOT want him. Just wait till he’s 50 and single.
Being shallow isn’t a choice ladies and gents. I mean who would seriously choose to assign value to potential mates with such excessive weight given to superficial qualities? It certainly doesn’t benefit me. In fact it turns out when you continuously judge a book by its cover you end up reading some really shitty stories. Can’t help it though, I’m shallow. Alcohol seems to help a little in the short term but if someone has a more permanent cure please let me know. Its a disease and I’m a man who bravely suffers everyday from it. When you think about it I’m kind of a hero.
Anyways, let’s also remember that this was an extraordinary circumstance. Under normal conditions I would have shown up, been disappointed, and escaped at the first socially acceptable moment to do so even if it meant fabricating that moment myself. This one time though I had a man on the inside with the power to expedite the disappointment, thus making the showing up and escaping parts obsolete. I liked it better when people were about to let me off the hook with a text message which is really just a way of fabricating some social acceptance for my new streamlined version of dealing with bad dates.
“Being shallow isn’t a choice ladies and gents.”
Bullsh*t.
You and men like you CHOOSE to use women as status objects to prop up your self-esteem in your homosocial communities. It’s all about how the woman on your arm looks to your buddies, even though none of you will admit it to yourselves.
And I’m a size 4, so don’t even start.
I was stood up recently, for the first time ever in my dating life, by a man who was a friend of a friend, both of whom pestered me to go out with him till I said yes. And then he stood me up.
Never again. It’s despicable, and it’s inexcusable.
It works both ways. I never got the whole “look at my trophy girlfriend/boyfriend” thing. You have to be a boring person if you need to do that. I read some of your response, and you sound bitter. Cat lady bitter.
*snort*
You read some of the response … and you and your tiny brain feel qualified to jump to conclusions about someone you haven’t even met or seen?
Yeah, rock right on there, genius. What are you, fifteen?
*eyeroll*
Max should have txt’d her, but in his defense, women are horribly superficial too. I’ve had several ask for more pics before they’d meet (I only have two, but they are current). One even backed out because she was so suspicious about my appearance (she admitted it). In fairness, I have been told I look exactly like my profile pics by the few dates I’ve been on.
Yes it’s shallow but yes, it’s also human nature. You can’t fault people for trying to find a peer both physically and intellectually and there isn’t a “cure” to make it otherwise. Realistically, there are two and a half issues here. One: is she at fault for lying about her appearance? Two and a Half: Is he at fault for his response to the true nature of the situation and is using an inside man cheating?
Well, as to her appearance, I think I have to say yes. My profile pictures for online dating always include a decent face shot where I’m genuinely smiling and a full body shot cleverly disguised as doing something fun (I’m on a moonbounce in mine). While I realize that better pictures get more responses and that there’s a whole stigma against the more…. ahem… rubenesque women, you have to wonder, isn’t she kind of asking for it? It’s not like the guy’s really not going to notice if you’re heavier than you implied and he actually cares, he’s just going to stand you up/call it off (exhibit A) or “mysteriously” lose your phone number after the date. So now you’ve devoted time and effort to someone who’s just going to ignore you. Good job! That was totally worth those hours photoshopping!
Which brings us to question 2, how does a gentleman handle himself in said situation? Realistically, I would recommend either the text messaged “Sorry, something came up and I just can’t make it” or sit through the one drink and excuse yourself that “Sorry, there just isn’t a connection here”. Yeah, it’s either thirty seconds or thirty minutes of your life that you’ll never get back but come on, you would want the same courtesy. Very little is worse than putting yourself out on the line and getting complete indifference back from someone. That blows.
The half, is it weird for him to use this bartender guy to check out the dates. Personally, I say yeah, it’s weird, but I also know he’s totally going to keep doing it and if I had the same opportunity available I admittedly would too. I do however draw the line at snapping pictures of said date. That’s just mean.
Who has pictures of themselves on a moonbounce?
People who know how to throw an awesome 4th of July party. Kegs + a Moonbounce was the best idea we might ever have had. Be jealous.
Perhaps I’m a little desensitized to these meetings. I go on two or three dates a week usually so I would hardly consider any one of them as putting myself “out on the line.” I’m not saying I wouldn’t be annoyed with being stood up myself but I definitely wouldn’t be as devastated as you’re all implying–especially if I had no idea as to the reason anyways.
Snapping a picture is kind of mean, but snapping a covert picture is reconnaissance. What she doesn’t know doesn’t hurt her. Although, it also won’t be necessary to risk blowing my bartender’s cover once we’ve worked together long enough that I can trust his assessment of body types.
Lying about your appearances always bothers me. Not because of dishonesty or anything like that, but because even if the girl is still someone I would consider dating, she hit me with an initial disappointment, which definitely sets a tone for the first impression.
Imagine a friend invites you to a concert and tells you they have front row seats. When you get there it turns out they were balcony seats. It’s still a good concert, and you would have been perfectly happy if you had known that going in, but now you can’t help the slight disappointment about your seats, you would otherwise not have even considered.
It’s called false expectations people..
“Which brings us to question 2, how does a gentleman handle himself in said situation?”
He goes out and has a pleasant evening with a fellow human being who interested him enough to correspond with and arrange to meet. Just because there’s no romantic connection or spark or whatever doesn’t mean you can’t go out and have an enjoyable evening with someone else, especially after you’ve made a date. It comes down to integrity and respect for others, really, both of which are sorely lacking in society these days.
Of course, gentlemen don’t generally describe themselves as self-centered shallow assholes, so there’s that, too.
Thank you.
Geeez. FINALLY, someone sane whom The Force is with.
Pingback: What Body Types on Dating Sites Really Mean | It's Not a Match.com
My profile clearly states BBW & in case that is not clearly understood, I also say “BBW means Big, Beautiful Woman & if you are looking for a thin woman, keep looking as I am not her.” I don’t think many men look past my boobs, because yes, I have them and they are Big & Beautiful too. I have received so many emails from men whose profiles say they ate looking for someone in shape or weight proportioned to height. I don’t respond because they apparently never read my profile and I have mo intention of being stood up. Max here doesn’t say much about himself, but I wonder if he’d like being stood up because his car is too old, his clothes too cheap or his head too bald? You did her a big favor Max.
Snap!
Or quite possibly she was the hottest thing the bartender had ever seen. So he takes a picture of someone else who obviously doesn’t fit the description of athletic to have Max cancel the date. Guess who consoles the lady and rides off into the sunset with her?
No wonder she didn’t ask for an explanation.
And the plot thickens…
Bottom line, if someone is a dick (and yes, women can be dicks) and lies to you or miss-leads you, then YOU are a dick if you lie and deceive in return…geez, didn’t your mothers teach you anything?
It would have been uncomfortable, it would have embarrass both of you, but the right thing to do is quickly state, “well, you are not what i expected” and go from there.
Wat a boob
Well said, Michael.