The Plight of the Nice Guy

"Hi! I'm nice!"

“Hi! I’m nice!”

I’ve been wanting to write about nice guys for a while. I recently received, because I am an important and influential person, an interview request on the topic of nice guys, and why they’re so hard to date. (Just how important and influential am I? The requesting magazine was based in Canada, and according to the Internet, ceased existing two years ago. Yippee!) The question that I was asked to discuss was this: “Why are nice guys the worst?” And when I heard it I thought, “Wait, they are?” Because truthfully, I’m a nice guy, and I was surprised to learn that all along I have secretly been the worst.

I mean, I’m the worst for plenty of other reasons. I horde plastic silverware and rarely pay my cable bill on time, but niceness never seemed like my problem. However, I did some googling, and it seems that many people agree––nice guys can be a real pain in the ass. Maybe we’re too cloying, or our niceness sets expectations of niceness in return, and that can be burdensome, especially if the nice guy is a fatty or has b.o. or wants to murder you or something. Honestly, I didn’t really understand the female argument on this one, so I needed more info. Because in my mind, you have to be pretty friggin’ entitled to complain about excessively kind suitors. And then more info arrived in my inbox,  from a hilarious reader, Kristin Klauder. Here we go…

There are really some seriously nice and thoughtful guys out there and the girls who find their quirkiness cute and endearing will be very happy one day…unfortunately I’m not one of them. My latest gentleman caller was actually a blind date set up from a friend. As first dates go, it was pretty successful. Good conversation, some laughs yada yada yada. He even walked me to my car where I decided it was a good enough date to qualify for the straight on hug. However, he got a little greedy and went back in for another one so I settled on the one arm side hug which is no good because it leaves one arm just hanging there and I always feel it needs a place to land. That’s when I found myself patting his stomach. Ya know the way you do to grandfatherly type men. Awkward moment #1 goes to Me.

bush-mccain-hug

“I love you so hard.”

(I’m not sure what hurts more. That one has to earn a “straight-on hug,” which presumably is the thrilling moment of sexual embrace where two peoples’ genitals touch through at least four layers of clothing, or that going in for a second hug denotes greed. Really? When did hugs become such a prize? You can be greedy for kisses, or greedy for cash, or greedy for Baby Ruth candy bars, but greedy for hugs? I think that’s just a poor guy trying to fill some post-date awkwardness. But Kristin is self-effacing and made me laugh, so I remain on her side.)

It didn’t scare him away though, because after the standard three day wait period I get the second date phone call. As the phone call comes to an end, he says “I’ll pick you up at 7″. PICK ME UP!?!? I know what you’re thinking.. “Awww how sweet!” And I would typically agree with you because I’m an old fashioned gal, but now I have to handle the inevitable drop off. Will he walk me to the door so then I feel obligated to let him in? What if I don’t want to let him in, will he try his luck for a goodbye kiss??….Ahhhhh!! Then I hear myself say, “Sure, sounds good!” Ughhhh! Well it gets worse…I asked where we were going and I hear three fateful words that no man should ever say to a girl when you are planning the SECOND date…”It’s a surprise!!” Men: yes I’m talking to you…do you realize what simple words can do to a woman? We analyze everything, but when you say “surprise” we go into overdrive! “What do I wear, where are we going, do I need a getaway plan, is he kidnapping me and taking me across the border!?!?!?” In fact that last thought did come up in my freak out session the next morning with the girls at work…what can I say I have an active imagination, just ask my mother!

"Surprise!"

“Surprise!”

(I have only planned one surprise date in my life, and it was not on an internet date. Or blind date. Two words that should never be mixed are “internet” and “surprise.” Unless they are in the sentence, “Surprise! You’ve been elected King of Internet!” That would be worthwhile.)

After calming down and accepting the fact that I most likely wouldn’t be bound and gagged and end up in Mexico, I give this very brave guy my address. At 6:59 I get the knock on the door. I open it just enough to fit my body out sideways so he doesn’t get the impression he can walk in and give him my dazzling smile as I squeeze through and slam it shut. He very sweetly says how wonderful I look that night and I should tell you I just don’t take compliments well. I can’t just say “Thank you!” like a normal person, I feel I have to reciprocate. So I decide to say “Thanks, you’re looking pretty schnazzy yourself.” I said that…I really did. Awkward count: Me 2 Date 0.

(Isn’t Kristin growing on you, guys? She’s really growing on me.)

Well, as it turns out this very sweet guy listened to me on the first date and took me to the local minor league hockey game! See I told you he was nice! Now I’ll preface this next part by saying I pretty much knew I wasn’t interested in much more than friendship with this guy, but we did have fun the first time so I didn’t see how a second date could hurt. Well, my little friend didn’t exactly feel the same way. He kept trying to chat me up while I was trying to watch the fights and the ramming up against the walls and let’s be honest checking out the really cute hockey players. So as I’m leaning forward intensely scoping out these hot men…uhh watching the game…I feel a hand touch my back. Hmm that’s odd. Then that hand starts going up and down, up and down. I cringe and move further to my left to try and get out of the back rubbing zone. It stops. Alright! Five minutes later, that darn hand finds its landing area again. Now most women will understand my conundrum…if I move backwards to prevent my back from being an open target I’ve invited him to put his arm around my shoulder and I can’t move further away because those darn tight stadium seats are so tight the fat sweaty guy next to me will think it’s an invitation!

See how creepy the arm on the shoulder can be?

See how creepy the arm on the shoulder can be?

So I go for the enthusiastic fan move and jump to my feet to cheer!! GO TEAM! Well that was a temporary fix because eventually I had to sit back down and of course when I do that hand finds its home again. I then turn to mentally chanting “Please stop touching me, please stop touching me!” When that didn’t work, I caught a lucky break and was saved by predictable man behavior…he reaches for his beer. I shoot back so fast and ram my back right up against that chair I think I pulled a muscle. But that hand is so persistent that it finds my knee! The rubbing continues, up and down up and down. I move to the left, I move to the right it’s like we’re having our own hockey game but I’m the goaly and can’t stop that stupid puck from finding the inside of the net! Nothing I do throws this guy off, by the end of the game my whole back is to him and he’s still trying to find a way to touch me. If that isn’t a turned off sign I don’t know what is!

I had already agreed to getting a bite to eat after, so I couldn’t escape just yet. The game of cat and mouse starts again as we’re walking to the restaurant and I find myself running into bushes and lamp posts to avoid him trying to hold my hand! However, as we go into the restaurant I hear someone yell my name!  There sits my two bosses from work and a colleague. I’VE BEEN SAVED! But wait, I still have to get through dinner and, oh yeah, I have to find an alternative ride home because I got chivalrously picked up remember! Once dinner ends I say to him that I feel the need to put in some face time with the boss and will find another way home, but thank you for a wonderful evening. While I was expecting to see him depart, he just stood there silently. If I don’t like compliments, I really don’t like awkward silence. It has to be filled!! So I open my big fat mouth and say “You’re welcome to join us”. And sure enough, he accepts! So there we are my coworkers, bosses, my awkward date and me…one big happy family.

Actual photo

Actual photo

No need to go into the details of the rest of the evening as my behavior was not my finest. I simply remember diverting my attention to others in the group until my poor clueless date decides to leave on his own. I did hear from him again asking me out on a THIRD date, but I finally had to break it to the guy that while he has redeeming qualities they are just not for me and we should remain friends. He replies “Great, I feel the same way.” Huh????

So fellow single male friends out there, take this one piece of womanly advice from this experience. When a woman turns her back to you, she’s not asking for a massage in the middle of 7,000 other people…SHE’S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU!

(And that’s all I need to know about the nice guy argument. Kristin didn’t dislike this guy for being nice, she disliked him for being, well, him. She just wasn’t into him. So when he did the things that every man would do on a second date, that you really SHOULD do on a second date to express your interest, they creeped her out. Because she didn’t like him–which is totally fine and totally within her rights to do. But then why does she, and many other women, rope nice guys into it? Well, because nice guys implicitly make you feel guilty. They treat you well, then you feel like a jerk for not liking them, and then translate that into feeling annoyed at the nice guy for putting all his expectations of niceness on her. Well, that, and his sweaty hands. So really, it’s not about nice guys at all, it’s just about regular ol’ dating. And now I feel marginally better about humanity. Thanks, Kristin!)

Got your own feelings about nice guys, or stories of dating horror? Email me at itsnotamatch@gmail.com!

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35 Responses to The Plight of the Nice Guy

  1. Liz says:

    Just one more reason to follow the rule that you should never accept a ride to a date until you are actually a couple – it’s always important to be able to escape. :-)

  2. The Most Semi-Interesting Man in the World says:

    Good write up, excellent thoughts. However, I see two deeper issues at play. One, does this woman want a bad boy and is she in her mid to late twenties? Two, the dude needs to do some reading and gear up his Alpha male behavior or just learn when “the pattern is full Ghost Rider”. Finally, you can pull a surprise date, but you must give a woman something to work with…i.e., what to wear, outside or inside, and you must ensure that you she is comfortable with you and that she is protected. So she is correct, “surprise” on a second date can seem like: cozy dinner at my cabin in the Woods with no cell reception and an axe buried in the tree stump next to the front door) to a woman. You should wait till date #3 after you have kissed and/or rubbed happy parts together even if it was by accident on her part which is no accident, ever. Like ever.

    • I don’t think her problem was that she wanted an “Alpha Male.” SUch a man would be more likely to indulge in unwanted touching (like the guy in the story did), or to try to force himself into her home (l=which the guy in the story didn’t do, but she was worried he might.

      P.S. Different women have different tastes in men. So my sister does feel some attraction to arrogant men. But all the men I’ve felt attracted to have been super nice.

  3. Mrs. Simon says:

    Love this girl! She is hilarious!!

  4. Amused says:

    I’m not seeing how this article has anything to do with Nice Guys.

    About the only Nice Guy behavior I saw from this guy was that he took the girl to some place apparently mentioned in the first date. Which meant that he was listening or something on the first date.

    :: shrugs ::

  5. Ed says:

    What a cunny!! If she didn’t want to be anything more than friends with him, she should have told him that at the moment it dawned on her. To “lead the guy on” by accepting the second date, only shows that she is either interested, or has no problems using a man for a free game and meal. Also, for her to sit there with this guy and check out other men at the game, is ridiculous. all these freaking women cry about how they cant find a good, honest guy, yet they themselves cant or wont be honest with guys. Treat others how you wish to be treated, right? she deserves every uncomfortable moment she experienced, by not being straight forward with him in the first place. I have ran into the “your too nice” excuse too. That’s all it is, its an excuse, rather than just telling the man that they are not interested, they come up with that. Ill let you gals in on something. Rejection is rejection, regardless of what form it comes in. just be honest, its what you expect, right?

  6. A nice guy says:

    I put her at fault. She says she had already decided she wasn’t into the guy but accepted the second date anyway. The guy obviously has no idea how she feels and was just trying to do what any guy does on a second date. If you don’t want the embrace don’t accept the date.

  7. Sams says:

    Nice guys can pick up girls by following these 3 simple steps:
    1. Be attractive.
    2. Be handsome.
    3. Don’t be unattractive.

  8. sir loin says:

    what’s that they say about karma? what comes around goes around? makes you wonder what brought this on her…

    still waiting on the zombie apokolypse

  9. Mike says:

    So let me get this straight… you accept a second date with the “nice guy” and then get creeped out that he starts acting interested in you? I’m sorry, but with all due respect this situation is Kristin’s fault. If you’re not interested in the guy then don’t accept the second date. I agree surprise second dates are a no-no, and you should’ve said you’d feel more comfortable if you knew where he was taking you. But why wouldn’t you tell him you’d prefer to meet him somewhere if you didn’t feel comfortable with him picking you up?

    You can’t play games and then get upset that this nice guy (and yes, he really was nice given that he didn’t call you out for leading him on) thought you were into him. Not sure I see where exactly the humor in this story lies…

  10. sierra says:

    I think what a lot of guys commenting here seem to miss is that for women, being sexually interested in a guy (or even wanting to be friends with him) isn’t something women know right away. Yes, there are times when chemistry is instant, but often (particularly with a ‘nice’ guy who maybe lacks in the looks department) women need to really get to know a guy before they become attracted to him. What Kristen was doing was giving him a chance…which is what men claim they want, right? Also-a word to the wise-if a woman is on the fence about a man, stuff like rubbing her back in public will really turn her off. Trust me, it comes across as pushy, which is honestly the opposite of nice-being ‘nice’ is being able to a signal that you are making your date uncomfortable. Finally, to the poster above who claimed she just wanted him to pay for her dinner and game, she didn’t even KNOW what the date was going to be-hence, the surprise.

    • haha says:

      In that context, I suppose. Not all guys are immediately pushing for what you are implying though, but I can definitely understand what you mean.

      Me, I’m clueless on dates – that’s my one token of honesty as ‘that one other nice guy.’ Being single forever will do that :-D. The story article seems to imply at least half-a-clue.

      Dating for me is about as annoying as endless job interviews where they say, “Well, you’re a good fit for the job, but we’ll choose someone else instead,” or “Well, you have good ethics, but not enough experience – come back when you get a little more experience.” That’s fine and all, but they’ll never actually know if I might have been a good choice if they don’t give me a chance.

      So I’m stuck in a never ending dating loop, sending me right back to the beginning to try and apply for yet another date with someone.

    • Amused says:

      Um, it might be true that most women won’t know if they are sexually interested in a guy for awhile, but Kristen already knew that she wasn’t sexually interested in this guy before his hands started wandering.

      “Now I’ll preface this next part by saying I pretty much knew I wasn’t interested in much more than friendship with this guy, but we did have fun the first time so I didn’t see how a second date could hurt.”

      It isn’t possible for Kristen to be “giving him another [romantic] chance” if she already knew she wasn’t romantically interested.

      And just how many uncomfortable situations does it take for Kristen to finally decide to get up and pretend to go to the bathroom? Maybe even call a friend to pick her up from an uncomfortable date?

      • PurplesShade says:

        You seem to have missed the very relevant part of her sentence which implied a ‘maybe’ not a definite assertion.
        She said “pretty much” that isn’t a definite statement, that’s a statement with potential in either direction, but with a definite implication. She was becoming sure, but she wasn’t yet sure.
        So she was doing exactly that, giving him a chance, to see if pretty much became “Okay, maybe I was wrong about this dude” or “Wow, okay, I’m definitely not into him”.
        The latter of which, it did.

    • ac says:

      Amen to that!

  11. Tara says:

    I think the deal is when we are not into a guy we can’t change it BUT the caveat with a guy who is nice is it is harder for us to pinpoint WHY? So we give more chances than we should. No generally I don’t think it’s the niceness turning us off it’s just the guy. We are just questioning ourselves & our own true feelings more than when we don’t like a guy who is a total jerk.

  12. E.J. says:

    I think “nice guy” is the wrong label to use for this guy. He really strikes me as that once-shy with new-found confidence sort, you know, the kind who never really grew up knowing how to talk to women, but just assuming that a few nice gestures and finding the “courage” to put a hand on a girl would be the thing to kick off that Disney romance; a later-in-life social Asperger’s.

    I think a nice guy would have picked up on those cues and backed off, but therein lies the problem I think so many women have with the stereotypical “nice guy:” the submissive nature of being nice. It’s one of the biggest problems I have with dating, online or otherwise. I’m guilty of a lot of the “nice guy” tropes (cooking dinner, giving up my jacket on a cold night, flowers when she’s having a crappy day, random Hawaiian vacations, etc.), and I guess it’s easy to fall back on this when the only thing you have to show off is how many languages you speak.

    This guy was probably trying to inject a little confidence into his personality, but failing to recognize that thin line between being sweet and being creepy, like Michael Cera without a mustache verses Michael Cera with a mustache.

  13. “Nice guy” is the wrong label to use for this guy. He really strikes me as that once-shy with new-found confidence sort, you know, the kind who never really grew up knowing how to talk to women, but along the way picked up the idea that a few nice gestures and finding the “courage” to put a hand on a girl would be the thing to kick off that Disney romance; a later-in-life social Asperger’s.

    I think a nice guy would have picked up on those cues and backed off, but therein lies the problem I think so many women have with the stereotypical “nice guy:” the submissive nature of being nice. It’s one of the biggest problems I have with dating, online or otherwise. I’m guilty of a lot of the “nice guy” tropes (cooking dinner, giving up my jacket on a cold night, flowers when she’s having a crappy day, random Hawaiian vacations, etc.), and I guess it’s easy to fall back on this when the only thing you have to show off is how many languages you speak.

    This guy was probably trying to inject a little confidence into his personality, but failing to recognize that thin line between being sweet and being creepy, like Michael Cera without a mustache verses Michael Cera with a mustache.

  14. disenfranchised says:

    Maybe I’m just too old fashioned but shouldn’t holding hands come before rubbing the back? Definitely before touching the knee… This guy’s actions seemed like something he read from an online pick-up guide, not from being a “nice” guy. More like someone who is innately shy so gets classified as nice when his actual aspiration is to be a pick-up artist. He didn’t seem like he had confidence, he seemed like he was faking confidence. The saddest aspect of this story is the revelation that this is the trope for “nice guys” in the dating world…

  15. This is exactly the same with the genders reversed, in my experience. I am annoyed with myself when I’m attracted to a woman with unpleasant personality traits, and I doubt and second-guess myself when I’m not attracted to a nice woman–I give it more of a chance than I otherwise would.

    But there’s not the “nice girls” trope–it’s not come up in culture for some reason–so I don’t fall into that cliched way of thinking about it. I just think, “shame, I wasn’t into her”. It’s not even always a sense of “they aren’t good enough”–chemistry is chemistry; you can’t make it happen. More’s the pity.

  16. Fuckface9000 says:

    Wow. What a whore.

    • Avi says:

      You should look up the word “whore” because nothing this girl did was whore-like. Thanks for not letting the masses down with the obligatory “She’s a whore!!!” comment though. It just wouldn’t be the internet without dashes of misogyny.

  17. PurplesShade says:

    Lots people people who act like this call themselves ‘nice guys’ whether or not the statement is relevant to them, it certainly is something they can claim as long as they only mention the details they say as nice.
    Like trying really hard to show her a good time at something she liked, listening well, and being relatively gentle but notable with the physical “I’m into you” cues.

    The trouble here isn’t whether he is a nice guy, the trouble is that their expectations of each other didn’t mesh. He’s expecting she’ll like his physical affection, she clearly didn’t.
    I’m right there with her on that one. When I was interested in someone and they decided to keep touching me when I was moving away (and because I’m pretty forward in many cases telling them I don’t really like to be touched.) then I would find myself no longer interested in them.
    There is an issue of a false dichotomy here too, there aren’t just ‘nice guys’ and ‘bad boys’, honestly. Also, there are a lot of people who blur those lines too.
    Myself, I never wanted and never dated anyone who conceivable be viewed as roguish. I married a nerdy gamer like myself, where neither of us has any propensity towards law breaking, and both seek to meet each others needs with kindness.
    We’re about as happy and clappy as it gets without a picket fence and being atheists.

    • Aaron says:

      I think the only problem is that she wasn’t willing to just say that she wasn’t interested, like an adult should, and risk being possibly seen in a negative light. Simply put, she led him on and kept leading him on.

      • PurplesShade says:

        Uhh, lead him on by trying to physically move herself away from him dozens of times? I think you and I may be operating on different definitions here, but let’s ignore the back-touching, and just think about the rest logically for a moment:
        When you’re touching someones leg for the first time on a second date, and they move their knee away from you, what do you assume? That they shifting in discomfort? Okay, how about the next time? And the next? At what point do you realize that maybe they aren’t very interested in being touched?

        Perhaps, instead of making false assumptions about if she was okay with being touched, when she kept moving away, maybe he should have actually been the one to speak up and ask: ‘Hey, why do you keep moving away, do you not like this?’
        Wouldn’t that actually be the logical question to ask, of yourself at least, if not your date, when they keep shrinking away from you?

        He made foolish assumptions and then didn’t notice, or ignored the body-language ‘no’.
        That’s hardly her keeping leading him on. He lead himself on.

  18. Avi says:

    This is a no win situation. Had Kristin not agreed to go on a second date with the guy, people would complain that she didn’t give him a chance. There would be comments haranguing her for being too capricious and writing off the “nice guy” because she didn’t like him straight away. She gave him a second chance to see if things clicked and what happens? There are dudes here projecting their own rejection onto this girl and whining that women only want tall bad boys who are loaded.

    I could complain that some “nice” men do the exact same things. Quite a few men will date and/or bang a woman they really don’t like until something “better” comes along. Some men are incredibly shallow and will drop a girl who doesn’t fit their physical ideal (usually based on some unrealistic idea that all women should look like a supermodel) despite the fact that they themselves are balding, broke, fat or ugly.

    I can attest that most “Nice Guys” are pills not because they’re nice but because they’re niceness is phony. A woman can generally sense when a guy is good and decent and we can also see through the guys who say and do all the textbook good date crap not because it’s genuine but because they think that’s the key to our panties. The guy in this story wasn’t inherently bad but it’s clear he wasn’t genuinely nice. Real nice guys don’t overstep boundaries repeatedly despite getting clear physical cues that the annoying rubbing and touching is making the woman uncomfortable. So no self proclaimed nice guys, you’re not not getting laid because you’re too nice, it’s because your game is transparent. Oh, and the crap about short guys not being able to get women because no woman wants to date a short stack is a moronic sweeping generalization. I’ve dated plenty of short men (some even shorter than me and I’m 5’4) and almost all of them have a huge chip on their shoulder. That shit gets old quick. Odds are there are plenty of women who wouldn’t mind dating you but some of you are far too caught up in getting with a physically perfect woman even though your ass is severely flawed.

  19. Dana H says:

    The only thing annoying about “nice guys” in general is that most guys who identify as one are self-righteous about it. If I don’t like them, they say it’s because they’re too “nice” and I like assholes. What if we just didn’t have much in common? Dating isn’t some kind of equation where the nicer you are, the more likely things are to add up in your favor. It works or it doesn’t, and it doesn’t always have anything to do with whether guys are “nice.” And when a guy expects something in return for doing something, it isn’t all that nice.

  20. Tall, Marc, and Handsome... says:

    I have been told, that women mistake a man’s kindness as a weakness. Which is a turn-off, yes? Or, more specifically, not bossing her around or offering her the option for food, activity, time frame puts the burden of decision-making onto her. Another thing a single lady does not want to do on a first date.
    Well I am sorry, but I am both polite and considerate. I will take lots of things into consideration. But I will pay for the date, I will offer a few options, and I will not expect anything at the end of the date. But I am not called a nice guy. A lady isn’t into me, great! But please just tell me!!
    Why would she just assume every guy knows all the rules about dating and should figure out what she is not saying? The guys that have figured it out are probably not dating, i.e. they found someone to be with who tells it like it is. Not to sound bitter, it is all good in this ‘hood. Just an observation.
    Plus, if she says “yes” to him, but means “hell, no” that is on her. If she is escaping, then invites him over to her boss’ table, what does she expect him to do?
    I guess I am dense as well, because I’ve had touchy/feely dates, and hands-off dates. But I think offering an arm while walking or while sitting is polite. Don’t want it? Don’t take it. If a guy offers a back scratch, or knee? then a lady should talk to him honestly: “Do you mind..I am not comfortable with that.”
    She was funny, but come on. Every time I read “he should just pick up on the hint” that it makes me wonder if the immaturity of this gal is the problem. Nice guys can grow up. It sucks to hear the “no thanks buddy.” but until a female chooses to spell it out, a considerate fellow is going to continue his pursuit, as it were. (Pursuing and stalking can be seen as a fine line…)
    For all of you single moms out there, how do you teach your young men/future bachelors? If your son wants to throw knives at the wall for ninja practice, you would say something, yes? No communication, you get knife holes in the wall. Don’t be shy gals, say it like it is. Better to see how he reacts to a polite concern now. If he cries and runs home, at least yo won’t have to deal with that on another date with him.

    Thanks for reading! (^_^)

  21. That ending paragraph is the best and truest explanation I’ve heard of the “Nice Guy on a Date” issue.

  22. Ally says:

    As a woman who has encountered her fair share of “Nice Guys,” I’d like to point out that this article isn’t really representative of the “Nice Guy” stereotype women are so fed up with. This fella may or may not fit the category. It was too little info to tell. His stubborn insistence on touching a woman who clearly did NOT want to be touched implies that he might. The real problem is that there are men out there who pretend to be “Nice,” but are actually just assholes in disguise. They most often are the ones complaining that women “only like jerks” or “Nice guys finish last.” These things are not true. We like men who are decent and respectful. That is NOT the same as being deceitful about your intentions or behaving like an insecure clinger. Most of these “Nice Guys” are actually extremely passive aggressive. Here are some quotes from a man’s perspective on “Nice Guys.” The full piece, ‘NiceGuy’, ‘Asshole’ – Different Sides of the Same Coin? by Mithrandir, can be found here:

    http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/coin.shtml

    “Basically, the impression that I get is that the interests of these “NiceGuys” are almost identical to those of their “asshole rivals,” and that they think of women the same way as well: basically, as potential “rewards” for all their hard work pretending to be a decent person. Basically, the negative responses were divided between [a few] types of people:

    Men who whine that whenever they befriend a girl, she starts going out with some guy who “just wants to get laid,” and so then they “can’t even get laid!” They should at least be aware of the irony here, but no; they’re not even aware of the hypocrisy …you can tell the difference between a nice person and someone who is only pretending because the faker will complain about how they weren’t rewarded for all their “effort.”

    …How can they think that it’s an injustice that their intentions go unfulfilled when they’re basically identical to those of the supposedly less-deserving “other guy”? These are the people who convinced me that NiceGuys know that they are assholes (rather than just being ignorant), and have some nerve claiming not to be.

    Men who think that women must be attracted to assholes because they got dumped once or twice. Who hasn’t? People like this need to stop seeing each individual as representing the whole of their sex… Maybe her reasons were valid, and it’s time for some self-examination.”

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