Women vs. Short Guys: Dating’s Fiercest Battleground

Short Guy #1: The problem is that women don’t want to date me because I’m too short.

Short Guy #2: I know, me too!

Short Guy #1: I mean, it’s not even like I’m that short.

Short Guy #2: Yeah, no, me either. I’m not that short either!

Short Guy #1: I wish there was some way to get to know a girl in a setting where she didn’t realize how short we were. Talk a bit, share some interests, fascinate them with our minds, but only later do we reveal how short we are.

Short Guy #2: Yeah! Only later!

Short Guy #1: And it’s not like I’m even that short.

Short Guy #2: No, I don’t think you are.

Short Guy #1: You either! I mean, we can totally reach things that are on high shelves.

Short Guy #2: Or we can get a ladder.

Short Guy #1: Or we can get a ladder. Absolutely.

(Pause)

Short Guy #1: And we can have pictures!

Short Guy #2: Pictures?

Short Guy #1: Women will assume we’re short, because they can’t see us. And when they can’t see us, women always assume it’s because we’re hiding how short we are.

Short Guy #2: They do. They do always assume.

Short Guy #1: So we’ll put pictures up that make us look regular-sized – or even tall! We’ll use tricky angles, or clever point of view techniques, or just show them our faces! It’ll be impossible to figure out our actual height.

Short Guy #2: Yes! Clever point of view techniques!

(Pause)

Short Guy #2: They’ll ask.

Short Guy #1: Hmm?

Short Guy #2: They’ll ask how tall we are. They always we do. Sometimes even when they’re looking right at us they’ll ask. Just to make us say it out loud and confirm their suspicions. I hate it when they ask.

Short Guy #1: Hmm.

Short Guy #2: Or over time, they’ll make us list it. They’ll make us list our height upfront, with our other interests and general descriptions. We’re done for. Sure, we could leave it blank, but they’ll see through that in a second!

Short Guy #1: Hmm.

(Pause)

Short Guy #1: I got it!

(Pause. Short Guy #2 looks at Short Guy #1 expectantly)

Short Guy #1: We’ll lie!

And thus Internet dating was born.

This guy’s profile says he’s 7’8″. Yeah right.

Men have numerous gripes about Internet dating. Women don’t write back, or they post out of date pictures, or they’re not as impressed by one’s ability to stalk them as they reasonably should be. But women have one complaint: Short guys lie. That’s it. That’s the only thing that’s bothering them. Believe me, I get all the emails.

For every ten emails I get from female readers of this site, at least six are decrying diminutive dudes and the lies they tell. The rest of my messages either marriage proposals or pleas from publishers demanding I let them pay me to write a book. (May not be true). A recent comment from loyal reader, Jess D…

What if you just constantly met short guys online? What does that mean? That’s one huge reason why I stopped online dating. They were all short and lied about it. But eventually, I’m going to find out you’re fucking 5’6″ and not 5’8″. And maybe that makes me shallow, but we all have our dealbreakers. Can’t do short. Also can’t do pointy shoes. No and no.

Aside from the alarming negativity towards creative footwear choices, this comment is fairly indicative of the messages I get. As is its ferocity. “I’m going to find out you’re fucking 5’6″ and not 5’8″.” I mean, that’s a curse word. Over two measly inches! It sounds like the sort of thing that would be written in cut-out magazine letters, and come wrapped around some poor person’s finger. “You lie about your height, I cut off your hand!” I don’t think I’d even notice that someone who claimed to be 5’8″ was actually a ghastly 5’6″, but it sounds like Jess would happily stab such a person in the heart. And trust me, she’s not alone. So…what’s the deal?

Ideal.

I’ve asked around, and the most common explanation I get for female height preference is that they like to feel “surrounded.” They want to hug someone bigger than them, lie next to someone large, someone who can put their arms around them and really…surround. So then I had to ask around and find out what the fuck that meant. The best I could come up with is that tall men make women feel protected. Comforted, cozy, and looked out for. Height, apparently, subconsciously offers that. It better be subconscious, because I’m 6’2″ and I’ll tell you right now ladies, I ain’t protecting you from shit. If a murderer, or a burglar, or even a strong wind should enter your room in the middle of the night, me and my 74 inches are getting the hell out of there. At least a short guy can fit under the bed, so there’s a decent chance you’ll have someone to hide with. I’d keep that in mind.

“For freedom (of short guys)!”

Sadly though, out of this innocent little preference, an entire war has been born. Women like tall dudes. Short guys, viewing this as another in a long serious of slights (see: genetics, also overhead compartments), grew frustrated and turned to Internet dating. Women, finding men lacking in general (can’t blame them there), gradually migrated to Internet dating themselves – only to find it largely populated with the same short fellows they disregarded earlier. Shortstacks, tired of their continued and seemingly arbitrary dismissal by women, get pissed, say “fuck it”, and just start lying about their height. In turn, this makes women pissed, who are pretty forgiving of man’s faults in general but don’t appreciate being lied to. Before you know it, the only people not pissed on Match.com are guys like me, but truth be told, my natural disposition is to be kind of pissed, so now we’re all fucked. All because of a desire to be “surrounded.”

So what do we do? Well, we can patiently try to do better. Women, you can be more accepting of guys who are a little shorter than you’d like, and maybe take a chance on somebody who is really keen but doesn’t fit your preconceived requirements. Shrimps, you can do your best not to lie or mislead about your height, even though it is often held unfairly against you. And me, well, we’ll get to me later. We can do all that and perhaps, slowly over time, the war between the women and the shorts will abate. Perhaps.

Or we can do what Jess D. did and just give up.

I think I’m with Jess D.

UPDATE: For more, check out Women vs. Short Guys Revisited!

And if you enjoyed this, buy my new book Not a Match: My True Tales of Online Dating Disasters. Great for people of all heights.

Available for your ereader on Amazon and iTunes. The only place to read all the archived It’s Not a Match favorites. Only $2.99!

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352 Responses to Women vs. Short Guys: Dating’s Fiercest Battleground

  1. J says:

    I feel special.

    …And I probably would stab the next short guy who claims to be tall in the heart. I’m homicidally over it.

  2. Catherine says:

    “Well, we can patiently try to do better. Women, you can be more accepting of guys who are a little shorter than you’d like, and maybe take a chance on somebody who is really keen but doesn’t fit your preconceived requirements.”

    That just might happen the second that “curvy” or (horrors!) “a few extra pounds” aren’t the automatic kiss of death. Or the second the profile is read *before* the pictures are clicked through. In other words….not going to happen.

    Yes, height is not changeable or controllable while weight is (to a degree, obviously). But general body type isn’t–those slender gals will never, without aid of surgery and silicone, fill out a bikini to the liking of many males, the athletic types will never have the Marilyn Monroe bombshell frame and the curvy girls, no matter how fit they may get will always have a little more padding than some may care for. Overall appearance isn’t really all that controllable, either. Sure a good haircut and skilled application of makeup can help, but some women will always be a bit plain, or have wide-set eyes, or big noses or any other variety of dealbreaker for the visually-inclined male.

    I suspect that this is one reason women like J feel entitled to be pissed about height lying. Lying is annoying enough, but lying about the one thing I consider a dealbreaker, while I’m perfectly aware that most of you have umpteen dealbreakers that are less quantitative (height= simple measurement) and more qualitative (define “pretty”) and therefore are really just subject to your whim and fancy….not cool dude.

    • JG says:

      “That just might happen the second that “curvy” or (horrors!) “a few extra pounds” aren’t the automatic kiss of death. Or the second the profile is read *before* the pictures are clicked through. In other words….not going to happen.”

      You’re joking, right? The vast majority of men couldn’t care less if a woman is curvy or has a few extra pounds. Men are way more lenient and tolerant about women’s looks and bodies than vice versa.
      Not to mention that women are a lot more shallow, critical, picky, hypocritical, egotistical and unsympathetic than men will ever be.

      ————————————————-

      “Yes, height is not changeable or controllable while weight is (to a degree, obviously). But general body type isn’t–those slender gals will never, without aid of surgery and silicone, fill out a bikini to the liking of many males, the athletic types will never have the Marilyn Monroe bombshell frame and the curvy girls, no matter how fit they may get will always have a little more padding than some may care for. Overall appearance isn’t really all that controllable, either. Sure a good haircut and skilled application of makeup can help, but some women will always be a bit plain, or have wide-set eyes, or big noses or any other variety of dealbreaker for the visually-inclined male.”

      What a lousy excuse. Women are incredibly shallow and way more shallow than men will ever be. And it is a lot shallower to reject somebody because of their height than their weight.
      Weight can be changed. It’s something that people have control over. Height can’t be changed.

      ————————————————-

      “I suspect that this is one reason women like J feel entitled to be pissed about height lying. Lying is annoying enough, but lying about the one thing I consider a dealbreaker, while I’m perfectly aware that most of you have umpteen dealbreakers that are less quantitative (height= simple measurement) and more qualitative (define “pretty”) and therefore are really just subject to your whim and fancy….not cool dude.”

      Women lie more about their weight than men lie about their height. And short men have every right to lie about their women, because women are so incredibly shallow that they will discard every guy who doesn’t live up to her retarded fantasy and demands. If he lies about his height, then at least he will get a chance to show her how he is as a person (although most women couldn’t care less about personality – looks and height, among other features, are more important to them).
      At least fat and obese women have an honest and fair chance with most men, but there are practically no women who would date a guy who is 5’7″ or shorter.

      • Ashley says:

        I hope the same level of bitterness you’ve expressed here doesn’t come through in your profile. Sheesh…

  3. Just A Guy says:

    I am a tall male. Apparently, that makes my dating life a lot easier. Life is unfair.

    And yes, it’s easier for gorgeous women to get first dates. Are we all caught up? Great.

    Guess what? Men are shallow. We prefer hot, funny and rich (but not too rich) women. We aren’t too bright about most of our relationship choices but we do our best to stick to certain rules. They may be flawed, but they are fairly consistent. (Rule #1 – always try and get the hottest girl you can.)

    So before I go on I want to make it clear that men suck. Agreed? Cool.

    But really, ladies: tall? THAT’S your dealbreaker? I expect it from men. We’re idiots. We get made fun of in movies and vacuum cleaner commercials. That’s our cross to bear because we are genetically and socially trained to look for young, beautiful people. It sucks but that’s the way it goes. At least we’re not hypocritical (of course we are but not so much in this small category). You want to be emailed online by a guy? Have your age be under 30. Be skinny or athletic. Boobs help a great deal. Those are the rules. If you don’t like them? Switch to a different sport.

    But all I hear from women is how they’re looking for some nice, sweet guy. Someone who treats them nicely. Someone who can make them laugh. Someone who can spell. Preferably has a job. The internet is full of those men. But heaven forbid he’s not 5’8″ or above. How could any 5’7″er give you the love, compassion and respect you deserve?

    Guys. Stop lying about your height. It makes you look pathetic. I know that most women will just “pass” after they see your height but do you really want to be with someone that stupid and narrow-minded anyway?

    Girls. Be as shallow as you want but don’t you dare say “sense of humor” is the most important thing to you. It’s not. You’re shallow, too. Deal with it.

    Anyone who puts dealbreakers on an as-yet-not-even-discovered-relationship deserves to be alone. Men or women. Good luck.

    • B says:

      Wow! Things are heating up on the comment board. I like it! Catherine and Just a Guy, I suggest you resolve this either with your fists, or a bout of passionate lovemaking.

    • Catherine says:

      I should note when I said “the one thing I consider a dealbreaker”, I didn’t actually mean *me*, it was an insight into what I imagine the thought process is. Now, lying and hypocrisy? Dealbreakers both.

      Actually, Just A Guy and I seem to be on the same page. I never claimed the moral high ground for women, at least not in the internet dating game. I know women can be shallow, I know that I personally can be shallow. Internet dating enables this to a potentially unhealthy degree (for both sexes). But I actually think it’s a good thing, short-term at least. I personally know two guys who fall somewhat under a lot of women’s height cut-off. These two guys also happen to be two of the most shallow and judgmental men on planet Earth when it comes to women’s appearance and yet it drives them *bonkers* that they’re judged on height on these various dating sites. Ah, hypocrites. But what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, right? Or maybe it’s a taste of their own medicine? Either way. There’s a lesson in there somewhere.

      What I was trying to point out, though, that the thing that women tend to be the most shallow about is height (which is quantitative—you’re above a certain height or you’re not), whereas with men its a gamut of things…all qualitative in nature (one man’s “curvy” is another’s “fat”, one man’s “hot” is another’s “funny-looking”, blondes vs brunettes and what’s a poor redhead to do?).

      It’s frustrating because if you think about it too much (which I don’t advise), you feel as if you’re being judged on 15 aspects of your appearance before you even get a chance (which, of course you are), and even if there were a definite order of “x is better than y which is better than z”, there’s really no way to fudge the truth once there’s pictures involved anyway. Height? Simple measurement. You’re either above or below the line and you can probably manage to successfully fudge the truth even in pictures. It’s just frustrating that the one physical standard that women have is SO straightforward and yet still we can’t seem to get what we want because it’s also something that guys can fairly easily lie about.

      My own personal experience with men’s heights is much more flexible in terms of requirements but (currently) stupidly and absurdly rigid in preference. Basically, in terms of a “requirement” just plain old taller than me is fine (and I’m 5’5″, so it’s not like I’m asking for miracles here). But largely due to the fact that in the past year I have been involved in one way or another with 3 guys, each taller than the last (from 6’4″-6’7″), right in a row, with some pretty hefty emotions behind at least one of them, my current preference appears to be for the tall. And not just tall, but stupidly, insanely, almost-has-to-duck-through-doorways tall. Yes, yes, I know. Remember, though. It’s just a preference. Some guys may prefer redheads but won’t exclude blondes and brunettes (well, *some* may but that’s a different issue). Same deal here. And I suspect for me this little issue just because of recent experiences (who hasn’t discovered that a rebound crush looks suspiciously like the ex?), which I’ll eventually get over.

      And finally, I still DO think that most women, myself included, really are first and foremost looking for someone interesting and kind, who treats them well and makes them laugh. But even for women who can honestly claim the moral high ground on matters of physical appearance, there really is such a thing as chemistry and physical attraction and all aspects of physical appearance, including height, are part of that.

      • B says:

        “And finally, I still DO think that most women, myself included, really are first and foremost looking for someone interesting and kind, who treats them well and makes them laugh.”

        Truthfully, Catherine, I agree with you. But I know I have shorter male friends who wouldn’t. It’s hard for me to judge, because I’m tall. But I’ve been on a lot of dates and can’t remember leaving any of them thinking “oh, she never really gave me a chance.” Like all of us, I’ve got plenty of physical flaws (see: third arm, sixth leg), but don’t ever feel like I’ve been rejected out of hand for any of them.

      • E says:

        Wouldn’t that make it much easier for a woman and much harder for certain men?

        If, following this scenario, different men have different preferences, wouldn’t it be easy for a woman to find a man to date? After all, some prefer blondes, some prefer brunettes, some think a curvy woman is attractive, etc… If you are blonde, wouldn’t it be easy to eventually find a guy that likes blonde? If you are curvy, there are certainly guys that like curvy women.

        However, for the cut-off as you had called it, what if you fall below the cut-off? I’m 5’5 for instance, and thus below the cut off. Wouldn’t you rather be in a situation where some people liked you and some didn’t rather than in a situation where nobody likes you?

      • Todd says:

        But see there is the problem you will not address. If so many men are attracted so many different types of women that means you can still get a date. Many and I mean many short men can not get a date period because they are short. So no you can not claim moral high ground on this.

    • Michael_1988 says:

      @ Just A Guy: Man, you are seriously deluded. Women ONLY SAY that they want nice sweet men because women get more blame than men get when they say they just want someone who is hot. This is one of those annoying double standards women have to put up with. Women have been brainwashed to be POLITICALLY CORRECT and NICE so they say that stupid B.S. to try to fit into that mold. Saying what they truly want (A HOT STUD) makes people give them the stink eye.

      Truth is women are just as visually superficial – IF NOT MORE – than men. Only difference is that they feel less comfortable admitting it. If a woman is in a relationship and suddenly a much hotter man declares his interest in her SHE WILL DROP YOU LIKE A BAG OF DIRT with no second thought.

      Yet when asked what she wants in a man she will still say someone who is smart and sweet and funny.

      But this is DRASTICALLY CHANGING with the newer generation. Teen girls and even girls in their 20s just don’t give a crap and they say it like it is. Go to any site frequented by young women (such as ONTD) and when pics are posted of male celebrities – not matter how perfect he is – they nitpick every little flaw. When a male celeb has gained wight or looks horrible THEY RIP HIM TO SHREDS. http://itsnotamatch.com/2011/03/29/women-vs-short-guys-datings-fiercest-battleground/

      The younger generation of females care much less about being “politically correct” or “nice”. So this lie that men are more visual and superficial won’t apply to the younger generation.

  4. TravelRabbit says:

    I’m a girl and I don’t get the height thing. I *prefer* short guys. Of course, that might have something to do with the fact that I’m 5’2” . . . but you never know.

    In any case, when I dated a guy who was 6’5” the logistics of everything was a pain in the ass. We couldn’t hold hands while walking. You know how when you’re holding hands, your arm is down by your side? With him, mine wasn’t. I had to bend my elbow and reach UP to hold his hand. Slow dancing at weddings didn’t work. There was no way we could ever kiss goodbye if we were both standing, etc, etc, all the usual things that you do without thinking of them. Somewhat surprisingly, sex was not a particular logistical challenge (just in case you were wondering). But I’d never rule a tall guy out just because he was tall.

  5. mandy says:

    I don’t see the issue with height being a deal breaker. I like them tall, and I honestly do not think that’s something I can control. Just like some guys wont date chicks with certain body types that they ultimately also cannot control. I need my height or taller, my weight or heavier. Partially because I like being “surrounded”, yes. Not for protection, I just have a much stronger physical attraction to guys who can engulf me and am typically turned off when guys are smaller than me. I’m not that big, 5’5.5” and 160 pounds, but I’m curvy enough that thin, small men remind me of my little brother. But I really, really feel like this is something I can’t help :\. I even felt myself become less attracted to Jeremy Piven when I found out he was only an inch taller than me. I don’t WANT to feel this way, I’m not mentally demanding it!

    Obviously if his personality fits mine, that can alter my attraction to him– there are things that are more important to me than height, like the ability to maintain banter and intelligent conversation. Honestly. I’ve dated some pretty weird looking guys who are like, 5’6” because they had a sense of humor I was attracted to.

    • B says:

      Well Mandy, any situation that results in you being less attracted to Jeremy Piven is unequivocally for the best.

    • brooklynkid says:

      women can control their weight, not their height

    • Megan says:

      5’5.5″ and 160 pounds comes to a BMI of 26.22. Do you seek a man healthier than you? Do you want your kids to be healthier than both of you? Perhaps it is time to change your thinking from height to health. It did wonders for me.

      • best point i’ve read on here so far

      • Max says:

        See, this perfectly describes just how desperate the short man’s situation is in the internet age: even fat chicks dismiss us. And then they justify themselves by saying “short guys to a girl are like fat girls to a guy,” but this is ridiculous, because not only are you saying you are fat, but you are lazy as well; I know for a fact that it would only take a couple months at the gym to go from 160 to 130. And it also says, to anyone with half a brain, how shallow you are.

        I’ll be straight with you. I’m probably one of the best looking guys you’ll ever see, and I will back that up with a pic for anyone who doubts it, but I am also only 5’5, which is as short, if not shorter, than the average female. Most honest girls, who are OPEN MINDED toward the height thing, will date a man the same height as them or taller, but not shorter. Most girls won’t even consider you if you arent at least an inch or two taller than them.

        It doesnt run in my family, either; I’m the only male in the family that isn’t at least 6 ft tall. My dad is 6’1 and his dad was 6’4. My mom didnt take care of herself when she was pregnant, and I was over a month early, and 3lbs 2oz at birth. She was supposed to have brought me to the doc for shots of a specific growth hormone that premature-born adolescents have trouble producing naturally. But, she didn’t bring me for my shots, so here I am at 5’5, 170 lbs of muscle, and a hot face (so i’ve been told many times), but I get passed up so much more than you would think. It is literally better, in terms of dating, to be tall, out of shape, and below average looking than to be hot, in shape, and short. I’m not saying I’ve never had a date– my current gf is 5’7, beautiful, 3yrs older than me and holds a doctorate degree, the girl before her was a 5’11 redhead model, and the girl before her a 5’2 Blonde hair blue eyed hotty who told me I was the hottest guy shes ever seen, celebrities included– but you wouldn’t believe how many girls I had reject me between girlfriends, only on the basis of height. Did I mention I’m almost done with my degree in rocket science, I’ve been playing electric guitar since 12 (im 26) AND am the bad-boy who did a stint in jail?

        But it doesnt matter, in the end. I’m not bitter about it, I know girls cant help who they are and are not attracted to; hell, I can’t help what girls I am attracted to, either. But I’ve never discriminated on a girl just because she had a few extra pounds, and I have NEVER, EVER called a girl “fat”, even if she was (and she could change!). But I have had girls say right to my face, even if I just strike up a conversation to them in line at Best Buy or whatever, “sorry… I don’t like short guys”. Can you Imagine what a girl would say if I replied “Oh, its okay; I don’t like fat girls.” ? It is politically correct for a girl to outright reject a man on the basis of height, which none of us shorter dudes can change, and we are expected to accept these rejections with a sort of passive understanding that we do not meet your requirements in a mating partner.

        Do any of you have a clue what that does to a person’s psyche? To their self-image? Its essentially as if the entire world population of women has collectively said to you, personally: “You’re a sweet guy, and so cute, and we get along great, but you’re just not my type.” You hear that enough, and you start to think that it wouldn’t make a difference if you were alive or dead, because in the end, you’re not the alpha male, so unless you’re rich, you aren’t reproducing. And it isn’t anyone’s fault… I just wanted to finally give you girls, a short guys perspective on it for once.

    • Arnold says:

      It looks like you DO get the height thing being a deal breaker, READ YOUR OWN POST AGAIN!!!

  6. Chloe says:

    Well, I’ll weigh in as a tall woman — I’m 5’9″, and am currently dating a man who is about 5’7″. Does that stop me from wearing heels? Absolutely not. So sometimes when we go out, I’m an even 5 inches taller than him… and it’s SO far from being on my radar as something that I give a shit about. I’m not trying to hold myself up as some kind of unselfconscious paragon of awesomeness, I’m just saying — it drives me bonkers that people think stuff like that matters, and makes me think that no one believes in Love Conquers All, Including Height Issues, anymore. I hope everyone with an appearance-related “dealbreaker” eventually meets the entirely-otherwise-perfect-person and gets over it.
    Additional relevant anecdote: one of the most beautiful relationships I know (my godmother and her husband) is between a 6’3″ woman and 5’6″ man. Do people look at them and whisper cruel and possibly hilarious things? Almost certainly. Do they give a shit? No, because it’s irrelevant next to all the other things that DO work about their relationship.

    ADDITIONAL additional relevant anecdote: Until meeting his normal-height fiance, my 6’7″ brother always, always dated teeny (like 5’5″ or shorter) women. There is definitely some tiny-woman-tall-man connection that I’ll never understand.

    • B says:

      Thanks, Chloe. You are a trailblazer. And there are probably countless 5’10” woman who have planned your brother’s fiance’s murder for hogging a 6’7″ to her 5’5″.

    • playyourpart says:

      thats really simple. just as women generally are more superficial, they are also more likely to be critical of thier own bodies and to become depressed about themselves (even if they look great!) this leads short women to seek tall men to somehow makeup for their own perceived deficiency (because of course all supermodels are thin AND TALL). It doesnt make sense. Sleeping with someone tall doesnt make you tall, just like sleeping with someone talented doesnt give you talent. However, women do this time and again. What’s in it for the tall guy? I’m an average height guy at 5’10” so I don’t know exactly, but I can tell you that I don’t turn down easy lays from girls that are 5’2″ and shorter, even if I might think they are too short for a long-term type relationship.

      • Rebecca says:

        “It doesnt make sense. Sleeping with someone tall doesnt make you tall”

        Well, that’s kind of the point: it sorta does from an evolutionary pov. A woman mating with a taller man increase her likelihood of having taller children. It’s all subconscious mostly but that’s why we;re subconsciously attracted to what we are: the quality we’re looking for are the quality we’d like to see expressed in our children.

        Women tend to favor quality and men quantity for that reason, due to the difference in reproductive investment.

    • Arnold says:

      5’7 is not that short, seriously…

  7. OK, I admit it. I’m a vertically challenged women myself (5’2″), and I typically am attracted to guys who are around 6′. Of course, if they have good strong arms, I’m OK with shorter guys.

    I hear some guys complaining that short women shouldn’t be picky about height. We’re all attracted to who we’re attracted to and we shouldn’t be criticized for that. I don’t think men should be criticized for preferring thinner or younger women, either.

    Now personally, I don’t consider physical attributes “deal-breakers” — it’s more about the overall chemistry, which includes personality, sense of humor, etc. But it IS annoying when someone lies… about age, body type, old photos, height, whatever… For me, that’s the much bigger red flag than height. It seems insecure which is very unattractive. I probably wouldn’t care about something minor like 2 inches, but lying on online dating profiles has become so common that you’re at a disadvantage when you tell the truth. Since everyone is so used to people lying they actually look for people “better,” (ie. younger, taller, richer, thinner, etc.) than they are themselves taking into account the “fudge” factor. I know someone who took 5 years off her age. After she’d been dating a guy awhile, she ‘fessed up and found out he lied by 5 years, too. They were perfect for each other!

    It’s in hearing stories like that, that everyone starts to try and figure out what they can get away with. No one’s really going to notice 2 inches or 5 years or how fit we are on a first date, right?

    While it might be true that fudging the facts on your profile are not the worst sin you can commit (especially if they’re minor), I still think you’re better off by just ‘fessing up to the truth. I’d rather someone be happily surprised when they meet me rather than disappointed.

    • Megan says:

      “I hear some guys complaining that short women shouldn’t be picky about height. We’re all attracted to who we’re attracted to and we shouldn’t be criticized for that. I don’t think men should be criticized for preferring thinner or younger women, either.”

      I believe the argument is not about being merely picky about height. It is about stating that you seek personality, confidence, love, etc and then reject a man who can give you all that just because he is shorter than your cut-off, and then go with a man who has none of the traits you said you were seeking but is taller than your cut-off height. I believe it is hypocrisy they are arguing.

      On the other hand, if a man states that he expects certain physical characteristics in a woman, more often than not, I have seen men willing to compromise on those. Men have their fantasies, but when reality hits them, they adjust. They are saying that we do not adjust our height criteria even when we have really run out of options.

      Specifically, we reject short men in real-life dating situations, which leaves us with mostly the taller men who got everything they wanted in life and hence have had very little character development. The short men then go online, where they hope that their height would matter less, that perhaps we could read their funny profiles and give them a at least a chance. When we do give them a chance and meet them in the real world, we b**** about their height again. We never give the short men a break, and that too for something beyond their control. And we are hypocritical too.

      We should be clearly specifying in our online dating profiles that our height requirement is the primary and strict criterion and that personality, sense of humor, etc are only relevant if the men can be tall enough to meet our bar.

    • kofybean says:

      “it’s more about the overall chemistry” Why do women say this!? The only chemistry women are open to is that from tall men, so it really doesn’t mean anything.

  8. John says:

    The above comments mentioned two of my biggest annoyances with online dating. The first being that women claim sense of humor is of the utmost importance. It’s either a lie or women just don’t have a sense of humor themselves. I have not reached a conclusion on this yet, I’m leaning towards lie though. The second annoyance is that women seem to either be delusional or super over confident with their body type. I understand ‘About Average’ is pretty vague, but ‘Athletic and Toned’ is not. Just because you play softball every other week, played JV basketball in high school, or even go to the gym 3-5 days a week does not make you athletic and toned. The category is ‘Athletic and Toned,’ not ‘I do stuff from time to time.’ In regard to body type, I just want women to be honest with us and honest with themselves, much like with the height thing. It’s stupid to hide, because the other person is going to find out eventually.

    • George says:

      I seen this a lot with females. I swear that at least 60% of the women in my region list themselves as “Athletic and Toned”. I don’t doubt it’s much different with the guys. I thought we had an obesity problem in this country.

      As a rule, I tend to avoid women who are “Athletic and Toned” or women who list their preference as only “Athletic and Toned”.

      As for the height thing, I’m 5’3” and on the slender side. It used to bother me, but now I don’t care so much. I’m secure with myself, so why would I want someone who is insecure over stupid shit?

      • B says:

        I should write something about this. The problem is that athletic and toned are totally different things. Grouping them together is causing nothing but problems. You can be athletic while being as toned as a bowl of grape jelly. Case and point: me.

      • avery says:

        You’re overlooking the real solution. People should be asked to list their weight. However, that has become taboo. Imagine if men were not asked for their height in feet and inches, but in descriptors, such as “tall”, “average”, “undertall.” Women would avoid online dating. A woman’s height/weight ratio really does give a sense of her body type and degree of fitness (waist size would help too). People like to argue that one’s body type (unlike one’s height) defies that type of quantification. But, in forty years of male dating experience, it doesn’t. My hunch is that every very fit five-foot-six actress in Hollywood (let’s say Kate Beckinsale fit) falls within a three pound range of deviance.

      • B says:

        Fantastic and totally insane suggestion from Avery!

      • bruce says:

        Height/Weight verses acurate descriptors…not so much…. for example, I’m 5’4″ 175 lbs. I’m 10 pounds over what I was in college where I played on varisity soccer and football teams. With that, a most would come up with chubby…I have a 7% body fat rating…its aint fat.

      • Ashley says:

        If you made women put up their weight, they’d lie their ever loving asses off. Lots of women don’t even like looking at the number on the scale in the doctor’s office. I think that the more variables you put up on a dating site, the easier it becomes to put scores of people on the chopping block without a second thought. There’s something to be said for sensing a general interest in somebody from their profile and pics and then just MEETING them. Besides, weight won’t tell you anything about shape (especially if you have giant boobs making up a lot of your curve appeal :-P)

    • Shadow K says:

      Well I can explain you why women mean by they want a man to make them laugh. you should understand giggle not laugh. You can be hilarious, intelligent, have a great personality but if not her type and she will think you are boring, stupid, and have not personality.
      if you are 6’xx something well build dude, all you have to do to make laugh is talk to her… even unfunny things, she’ll find you interesting even if you’re not, she’ll thing only good things about you.
      Second step take her out, kiss her, get laid, move on to the next one. She will love you if she feels you used her. simple isn’t it ? ^_^

  9. Eric says:

    I just have to laugh when I see a woman who is 5′ 0″ tall and lists that her match needs to be at least 6′ tall! Really???

  10. Eric says:

    I agree, John. 30 pounds overweight seems to be the new “average” now.

  11. brice says:

    I’m also with John. When I see someone 5’1” who won’t settle for less than 6′, I think she’s really looking for a human jungle gym. I’m also getting ready to follow Jess D.’s cue and give up. As a 5’7″er who otherwise presents pretty well, Match.com has been a discouraging bust and I suspect other dating sites would be too. Why waste the time? Besides, I have my deal breakers too, but rather than getting beligerently self-righteous over it I feel that much more lousy about the whole business.

    • B says:

      I think you’re safe at 5’7″, Brice. The average female height is 5’6″, so you’re taller than most of them. Don’t give up yet!

      • Megan says:

        The average female height may be 5’6″, but the average female is also seeking a man who would be taller than she would be wearing her average heels.

        Perhaps specifically avoiding the average female and seeking the self-confident female who has enough self-esteem to truly love a man and let him love her in return might help.

        That implies reading our profiles and engaging in a conversation. And that does not include childish talk about how spontaneous or adventurous we are, because nobody is truly as spontaneous or adventurous as we say we are.

        That also implies not judging us by our photographs alone, because we all know the power of makeup and cosmetic treatments and clothing. An easy-going down-to-earth girl might take casual pictures but would look absolutely stunning if she were to dress up for the evening.

      • Ramblin' Roy says:

        I’m 5’7 – and (without trying to sound conceited) a pretty good looking 25 yr old guy. I actually have reasonable luck meeting women out and in person, and feel like once a conversation is started the height becomes irrelevant (most of the time). However I just moved across the country and know no one, so I tried out the online thing… I prob get 0.5 responses for every 20 messages I send, and I def. don’t send messages to girls who are way out of my league. So long story short.. I don’t really know if you are safe at 5’7. Any thoughts ladies? I’m confident enough to hear your honesty.. haha.

      • bruce says:

        I suppose it is lucky in a way for less than average height guys; we don’t have to put up with a lot of attention from insecure women…THAT’S one of my ‘deal-breakers’

    • Dan says:

      Match.com should just let people search for other people who are okay with their height or weight. i.e. If you are 5’7″ then you should be able to do a search for women who like short guys. They are out there. It seems like it would save a lot of trouble and anger.
      Women can change their weight and hair type but men are stuck with their height. I am 6’3″ and can’t get a date on Match.com so we all got problems. :-)

  12. Slightly cynical, yet optimistic says:

    I’ve read various claims that between 60%-80% of the men on sites like match.com never, EVER get a response or email from women… I’m a 5’7”man though and I can happily say I get a decent amount here and there; something that I attribute to a stellar profile… I have a few “fibs” here and there (I added an inch to my height– and unless you measure me, are you really gonna know the difference?; I have a 4-pack and though I should probably say I’m “about average”, I’ve left it as “athletic and toned”– I had a rough past few months where I gained some weight :P), but overall I try to be honest and have a unique profile.

    Now, I don’t condone the “lying” part myself (as hypocritical as that may seem), but if you *are* gonna lie, do it in EXTREME moderation… Email a girl who includes what you actually look like so in the case your little exaggeration does come to light, she might be a little more willing to forgive you. And having an amazing and funny profile helps a lot too…

    However, I too get peeved when I read the profiles of girls who are looking basically for the “perfect” man. I mean the thing looks like a wish-list. Hell, if you ever find a guy like that, *I’ll* date him… But no, guys like that don’t exist and since you’ll never find him, you end up passing up great catches (both short and tall). Are some of those things that you list really that necessary to form a loving relationship with someone?

    Girl #1: What happened to that guy you were dating?
    Girl #2: Ughh… Turns out he was a bad speller/2” too short/didn’t like dogs… I guess it was never meant to be…

    Seriously… C’mon…

    The only reason you should have to be looking for the perfect male specimen is you’re out to create a genetically perfect ubermensch and let’s face it– you probably aren’t…

    Anyway… To the ladies: if you’re gonna be difficult and HAVE to have a man with certain traits like height so you can “feel protected” (because, you know, men above 5’10” are bulletproof– by the way, I hope you enjoy that crik in your neck from looking up at him all the time) or any other inane “requirement”, be prepared to do a lot of searching and possibly never find your “ideal” man…

    And guys: take what I said to the women and apply it to your dumb asses as well… Cause god knows how superficial we can be sometimes too… Remember, just because she has a killer “[enter body part(s)]” doesn’t mean everything else won’t/can’t go to shit later– and I don’t necessarily mean she’s gonna get fat…

    Overall advice: Keep your standards high and expectations low…

    Good luck.

  13. Average Napolean Complex says:

    As an average height guy, 5’11”, I can pretty much get away with dating most girls who insist on just being taller than them. What I can’t get over is my own Napoleon complex, because my dad is 6’3”, my brother 6’4”, my best friend 6’7” and 3/5 of my close friends over 6’3”. I am a short stack wherever I go, and it has warped my psyche. It would be like a thin girl hanging out with nothing but runway models, it eats at you until you wallow in self pity. I actually underrate my height on dating websites by an inch so that my dates aren’t disappointed when I show up.

    I’m sick, I know it and it is my one great weakness. I’m fit, not ugly, have a thick head of hair, and a good job, but my height insecurities make me only message girls 5’4” and shorter so that there is no way in heels they are taller than me.

    Call it what you will, but I wouldn’t wish my future child to be anything less than 6’3” which I am convinced is the perfect height to be, not too tall where you have trouble fitting in cars, and tall enough to meet all but the most stringent of female height limits.

    • B says:

      SEE WOMEN! This is what you are doing! Totally unfair, making this poor guy crazy. You have my sympathies, sir, and know this: 5’11” is not average. It’s TALL. You ARE TALL. Live it up!

      • Annie says:

        I agree with B, 5’11” is tall. At least I think so, and I know many of my girlfriends would agree. In fact, I see that as a really good height because then I wouldn’t have to crane my neck to talk to you but I would still be able to to safely wear heels. However, it isn’t fair to say that girls have necessarily given Average Napolean a complex. It seems to me that it has more to do with the men in his life being so tall. Being surrounded by giants constantly would make most anyone insecure about their own height.

        Although I must admit that we women can be a little rough on the standards we have for men, men do the same thing. I myself am 5’6′ and slim and, sure, this would seem like a good thing but it has proven to cause a lot of frustration in regard to men. You see, I am pretty evenly proportioned, so I am slim everywhere…..including my chest. Not to say I’m shopping in the girls department, I have a small B, but it seems that unless a woman is a C or higher they won’t give you the time of day. All of my male friends that I have asked always say that a woman’s boobs do not matter, but many of my girlfriends have decent or even large chests, and they always get guys’ attention. I’m beginning to think that my freinds are all lying to me to be nice, but it really ticks me off. I don’t want to have to get a boob job to get a man’s attention. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been talking to a guy only to have him forget about me completely once he gets a look at some girl whose shirt is practically busting at the seams because she’s so *ahem* large in that area. It doesn’t really seem fair. And do you know what will happen to those things in a few years? Eventually gravity cathes up to them and they don’t look so perky as they once did.

        I guess I may have a complex too, but I’m just tired of men always going for women with big boobs. I know you guys are visual creatures and it’s in your nature, but please, just try talking to the slim girl once and see if her personality doesn’t make up for her lack in the chest department. Maybe that sounds dumb, but when it comes down to it you have to admit that if you want to have a relationship with someone you will eventually have to talk to them, and that just ain’t happenin’ with a lot of the big-boobed bimbos. (DISCLAIMER: Not all big-chested women are bimbos…sorry if it comes across like I’m saying that because I’m not)

      • Average Napolean Complex says:

        Just like Annie suggests, it isn’t women who have given me the complex, it’s my family and friends. If they weren’t so damn tall, I wouldn’t have a problem being at least above average height. Also in Chicago there tends to be a disproportionate number of tall men, as I can be counted as average in any bar I venture into. It must be all the corn fed Midwestern guys with Germanic/Scandinavian heritage. Whenever I visit the east and west coasts, I feel much taller in bars versus my local stomping grounds. I guess that means I should move to Japan, and be counted as a giant.

        As for liking big boobs, count me squarely in the against category. I prefer thin/athletic builds with B cups (or even less) as those women tend to age much better than the all out curvaceous sex bomb figured women. I recently went to my 10 year high school reunion and I can already see the ravages of time starting to hit the busty girls of high school.

      • Megan says:

        Replying to Annie’s message about B or C cup sizes …

        You cite anecdotal evidence that men prefer C cup sizes and that your B cup is too small for them.

        First, I have not seen any profile on any website or any guys ever mentioning specific cup sizes as their cut-off. I believe as long as your breasts are proportional to your body and you have some cleavage, men are interested.

        Secondly, if you plan to attract men using your breast size, all power to you and good luck, but is that how you want your future husband to know you? By your breast size? You are seeking the wrong kind of man.

    • Slightly cynical, yet optimistic says:

      Annie, you make a good analogy– there is a similar displacement among guys towards girls with a bigger bra size as girls towards shorter guys.

      However, I’ve never met a guy that would say “I wouldn’t date this girl because she’s got small breasts”. They might have a preference but they’d never exclude a girl simply because of small boobs.

      If guys seem to gravitate towards your friends because they have a bigger chest, then you shouldn’t feel done cause it sounds that these guys are only after sex… I know it sucks, but you’re probably better off in the long run (unless your goal was just to get laid).

      Now if women went after tall guys only for sex but were open to forming a relationship with guys of all heights, I’d be okay with that, but a large chunk of them are adamant about the guys being 5’10” and above…

      And I feel you on your social predicament– like I said above, I’m 5’7” and almost all my friends are 5’10” and above so it’s the same situation…

  14. Mike says:

    U.S.A department of Health & Human services stats on height: 12-14% of male population in the U.S. is 6 feet or taller. HELLO!!! That means 88-86% of men BELOW 6′. Women are anexed because they cannot realize getting the Hollywood ideal that the media BRAIN WASHES them with. DEAL WITH IT!!! You want tall man….. statistics are NOT in your favour. THAT IS WHY plenty of short men around. The media is doing NO justice to women nor the short guy.

  15. Kenny says:

    Short men should be rounded up into camps and dealt with SWIFTLY and DISPASSIONATELY!

    Oh and I’m 5’5” by the way

  16. E says:

    “U.S.A department of Health & Human services stats on height: 12-14% of male population in the U.S. is 6 feet or taller. HELLO!!! That means 88-86% of men BELOW 6′. Women are anexed because they cannot realize getting the Hollywood ideal that the media BRAIN WASHES them with. DEAL WITH IT!!! You want tall man….. statistics are NOT in your favour.” Exactly!!!!!!!!! Women are so brainwashed and want to so badly think that’s reality!!! Also women don’t realize or want to believe that the Hollywood type actors are usually much shorter than what they look like on TV or the movies.

    I think what really set’s men off is the way some women come across with men’s height as in she’s refuses and is down right adamant that her man has to be at the minimum in the 6′ range and there is not if and’s or butts about it he must be that tall or she’s going to refuse every man and she makes it clear that everyone knows it. It’s that downright adamant and refusing that pi**es men off that she refuses to open her mind… On top of that these are usually for the most part the women that are all of like 5’1″ up to like 5’5″ and she clearly knows that her man if he was even 5’9″ to 5’10” or so he will clearly still be tall than her even with her high heels. It’s also funny how women talk about short men when she is all of 5’1″ to 5’5″ and she’s talking about men that are 5’9″ 5’10” as short. Whatever!!!!!

    • Indeed. If you are short, you have no business calling someone taller than you short, let alone complaining about it.

      • Rebecca says:

        Well men are obviously on average, taller as a group as women are, by quite a noticeable margin too.

        So an average 5’5″ woman correspond to an average 5’10” man. A short 5’0″ woman would correspond to about a 5’6″ man. Given that height average difference it wouldn’t be hypocritical for a 5’8″ woman to call a 5’9″ man “short” as her corresponding man height would over around 6’1″-6’2″.

  17. Scratching_My_Head says:

    Girls on dating sites need to wake up from their fantasies.

    My profile gets visited by most girls whom I emailed, so I guess my picture and initial email are at least decent-lookng and I don’t think there’s anything wrong in my self-summary either. But 90% of them would not write back after seeing my profile, certainly because I’m under 5’4″ (And no, these girls did not post their height requirements.)

    A majority of these women are 5 feet or under. I really don’t get it. Do they really have security issues and need the “protection” from tall guys?

    For example, one girl who’s 4’10” specifically states she wants guys who are 5’10” and above! (No, I did not email her.) But what makes her think such tall men would want to date her? Her appearance is only slightly-above-average at best.

    I resorted to online dating after my previous long relationship recently ended and all girls I know have either gone into a relationship with someone else or happily married, so the single females in my social circle have been depleted.

    Honestly, I only email the average to slightly-above-avg girls and avoid the “hot” ones. Even then, to my surprise, I rarely get any responses. Now I know why they are 30 and still single.

    So… all their talk about sense of humor, ability to hold good convo and being genuine and sincere are all BS. As long as you post up a fake GQ pic and say you’re 6 feet tall, all these women will come crawling after you for a date! LOL

    • B says:

      You sound angry, my man. Let it go. Nothing you can do about what girl’s want, no matter how unreasonable it is. Best path is to not worry about it and take what comes…

    • JG says:

      Exactly. The vast majority of women don’t give a flying crap about personality. What’s important to women is his height, looks, penis size, job/income and status.

      So men, don’t EVER believe women when they say that personality and/or humor are the most important/attractive features in a man. It’s nothing but a big fat lie.

      • Moses says:

        There’s a funny bit on youtube about the number “6” and how it applies to women and dating. It says women want guys that are 6 feet tall, has a 6 figure salary, has 6 pack abs, drives a car with a 6 speed gearbox, but the desired penis size is 9 inches. Just flip the 6.
        Too funny but so true!

        You are right about women and personality. They care a lot LESS about a man’s personality and MORE about the superficial stuff during the teen years to about 50.
        For those guys who think cougars are easy pickings? Think again. Older ladies, especially the hot ones are competing even harder against the short girls for the tall guys. Dating a cougar seems to be the “in” thing right now but they are just as heightist and like most women have a hard time changing their spots. Some just dumb down the importance of height related to their diminishing looks. They are forced themselves to settle for a shorter guy or stay single because the tall guy picks and chooses from the hotter, younger girls. From my experience, only women of retirement age or older than 65 don’t focus so much on height.

    • bruce says:

      Yea as if these “girls” never saw a Bruce Lee film…you don’t need to be 6’5″ to protect…most people’s knees are within easy reach of a 4’7″ midget.

  18. Scratching_My_Head says:

    B, yes I think I was a little resentful and just needed to vent =)

    It’s because I’ve only recently joined a couple of dating sites about a month ago and was shocked by such cruel (and unrealisitc) reality of online dating.

    I now realize it’s actually a lot easier and more fun to meet people in real life than to rely on dating sites. So I’m gonna have to say goodbye to online dating. Thanks for your response!

  19. Pingback: Blog

  20. ANONYMOUS says:

    SERIES OF QUOTES:

    I’m a girl and I don’t get the height thing. I *prefer* short guys. Of course, that might have something to do with the fact that I’m 5’2” . . . but you never know.

    In any case, when I dated a guy who was 6’5” the logistics of everything was a pain in the ass. sex was not a particular logistical challenge (just in case you were wondering). But I’d never rule a tall guy out just because he was tall. I don’t see the issue with height being a deal breaker. I like them tall. I need my height or taller, my weight or heavier. nd am typically turned off when guys are smaller than me. small men remind me of my little brother. I even felt myself become less attracted to him when I found out he was only an inch taller than me.

    The above comments mentioned two of my biggest annoyances with online dating. The first being that women claim sense of humor is of the utmost importance. It’s either a lie or women just don’t have a sense of humor themselves.

    I just have to laugh when I see a woman who is 5′ 0″ tall and lists that her match needs to be at least 6′ tall! Really???

    When I see someone 5’1” who won’t settle for less than 6′, I think she’s really looking for a human jungle gym. I’m also getting ready to follow Jess D.’s cue and give up.

    women talk about short men when she is all of 5’1″ to 5’5″ and she’s talking about men that are 5’9″ 5’10″ as short.

    For example, one girl who’s 4’10″ specifically states she wants guys who are 5’10″ and above! (No, I did not email her.) But what makes her think such tall men would want to date her? Her appearance is only slightly-above-average at best.

    I rarely get any responses. Now I know why them ladies are 30 and still single.

  21. Donny says:

    I have found that in the end, height really isn’t a big deal if you don’t make it one. I’m 5’4″, and I really don’t have much of a problem with women. I’ve dated girls of varying heights, and each time I had one thing that countered my lack of verticalness. Confidence. I know it sounds cliche, but confidence can take you far. It makes you more intriguing. But that alone isn’t enough. You gotta have a sense of humor for sure, especially if the jokes about your height (and they will happen). Just laugh and brush it off, can’t change your height really, so why worry? It would be like worrying about the distance from the Earth to the Moon, that’s how trivial it is. If people you know keep bringing it up, still don’t let it bother you. You can even turn the tables on them, because no one is perfect. People still fail to realize this. Most of the time when I approach people, they may remark about my height, but I just ignore it and we usually become friends or something later. But most of the time, they don’t even say anything about it because maybe I’m just THAT cool (probably not).

    As far as shallowness goes, the things that men look for a usually just what they would want and not an actual need. I know most of my friends would settle for less, myself included. The only requirement I think a guy would be stern on is weight, but that’s something that a woman can change with work. But as far as a woman having the absolute requirement of height, and there is no changing their minds? Whatever happened to just having a good time with someone just for the hell of it (and this foes for men and women) You never know, the guy or girl you may have went out with “just because” could be exactly what you were looking for. As for the lying, it is wrong and they shouldn’t lie, but it’s not like they were trying to hurt someone’s feelings. They just wanted to be given a chance. People lie to get what they want, if it’s for good intentions or not. But people need to chill out and just go have a good time, even if it’s with a little man or a bigger woman. In the end, having a good time and being happy is really what it’s about right?

  22. sexy tall dudes rule says:

    women are so boring anyway i really love tall men i cant help myself i am 5ft 6inches and every time i see a tall man especially thin blondes i want to makeout. some dudes take me over a cranky selfish woman.

  23. Marc says:

    There is no chance women will consider us short guys. It is just a curse and I wish modern science can find a way to increase a man like me from 5’1″ to at least 5’8″. I’m tired of being what one woman called me: an ineligible bachelor. I’ve never lied about my height but 100% of women will ask how tall I am and avoid talking to me when I say 5’1″.

    • Ila says:

      lol try being a 5’11 girl lol way worse! no, I’m not a supermodel ( I was a model when I was young and anorexic though)…. Men vomit literally because of my height, all good (us girls don’t give a fuk)…… They say men like tits lol ,not now because of KIM K and her fake one they don’t even like boobs only butts…… Trust me a natural “reduced” 36F no man would even look at,,,,,,,,haha I’ve never had a man lol & wouldn’t want one, not a les (sadly) but it’s all good u pedophiles, keep on with the lil chicks JK ,no hate it’s natural I hear? Whatever.. My best friend & I met when i went to a tranny bar ( thought I’d get love ) haha no those jotos (I luv U!!!!!!!) knew I was female? They were like “Those tits feel reall ,ewww”, “You seem like a sweet girl, why are you playing us?”, or “MMMM something is iffy, are you a girl”? Even lesbians have been like “?” ,it’s like they can sense I’m not one? So I’m tttttttttoooooo girly to be a tranny or a les & too manly and nasty to be a girl? Wow< I guess I'm nothing haha ALLLLLLLLLLLL GOOOOOOOOOD (my "fag angels" are sweet to me though! yay thanx sexiiiii bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • B says:

        I haven’t the slightest idea if this person is real. I’m hoping not. Do people actually say “les”?

      • Ila says:

        100% real sadly. I spend do much time with my fag friends and emo 13 year olds, my children’s ages)….. OOOOPs another thing to hate about myself!

      • B says:

        Wow, that is amazing! A shocking turn of events. Thanks Jess, you’ve enlightened me a little on my judgements…

      • Ila says:

        Sarcasm is Jesus & I’m here on this shit responding bc my life is that fucked! Yay wow kill me now, no I’m not worth it….I forgot

  24. PetiteLady says:

    I think it’s the initial lying that is so annoying. I like under 6′, because I am petite. I try to give everyone a chance & get to know and eventually dislike them for reasons other than height.
    A friend of mine wrote this awhile ago about being 5’7: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93540786

  25. fit girl says:

    5.8″??? these girls are actually being generous! I thought the minimum is 6ft. Thats’s my minimum…i MIGHT make an exception for someone who is 5.11 but THAT’S IT! I have got to be able to feel demure even when wearing 4 inch heels thank you very much! :)
    P.s. ladies, if you are looking for tall men move to germany! ALL the guys there are over 6ft!

  26. B says:

    A LITTLE NOTE ON COMMENTS: Love how much conversation this piece has caused, folks, I really do. And please, keep it up! But if comments get too attacky or aggressive, I’m choosing to edit and sometimes even delete them. So try to keep things somewhat un-hate-filled.

  27. Marc says:

    I guess the question is if there are any women exists who will date the unfortunate men who aren’t 6′ or taller. A lot of us are lonely and it isn’t our fault that we are not a minimum of 6′ tall. We are open to almost any ladies but even unattractive and BBW women hate us!

  28. Roman says:

    I’m a 5’5(well actually 5’3) guy..omg I just lied..so sue me lol

    Am I allowed to have ‘preferences’ too? Anyway, I get along better with taller girls, I guess they’re used to being tall and are not as obsessed with height as short ladies. Sure that’s not always the case, but still..

    • Marc says:

      I have to agree with you Roman. I admit I like tall women too. Height doesn’t matter to me but for some reason tall ladies attrack attention. I’ve heard that they have troubles finding guys because it seems most guys want a woman that they are taller than.
      Of course at 5’1″ I’m use to women being taller than me so it isn’t an issue if a woman happens to be taller than me. I wish these tall women who complain about their difficulties finding men would consider shorter men who most likely don’t consider a woman being tall to be an issue.

      Marc

      • Ila says:

        I’m a 5’11 woman & I have never had a boyfriend, a date, or even a glance from a man (when I drive they like me). I look at the floor, smile at nobody ( but babies, LOL they don’t ask your height). Being a tall women is hell! By the way most of the men in NM are super short and seem to have swag & be happy! Date mexican girls, they don’t seem to care. Sadly for us tall girls there is no magical land……….

  29. Kenny says:

    SERIOUSLY… what about my ‘FINAL SOLUTION’!?! Round up the shorties and wipe them out… all of them. ;-)

    I’m fine with my own self-sacrifice as well if it will help the human race. No man under 6’3″ is of any worth anyways… NONE!

    ;-)

    Still 5’5″ and ready to die for the cause. OH YEAH!

  30. Rosa says:

    You have a point Kenny. I am sick and tired of short men approaching me thinking that because I’m a short girl, I like short guys. I HATE SHORT GUYS! Just because I’m short doesn’t mean I don’t prefer the tall, dark, and handsome guys like the rest of us women. I really wish all men shorter than 6’2″ should be rounded up and shot. I also think us women should hold dating sites accountable and demand that they ad fraud protection to stop short men from lying about their height and if we specify a minimum height of 6’1″ we shouldn’t be paired up with short men in our “most compatible matches”. ANY man under 6’1″ IS NOT a compatible match for me. Men who lie about their height or try to conceal their height with elevator should be arrested for fraud!

  31. Roman says:

    Rosa Kenny, are you 2 being serious? Haha, so you want to wipe out like 90 % of the male population…nice. I imagine if that happened then you’d have to turn lesbian hun, cuz having such a huge selection, all the remaining men would be already taken, or more like -torn apart by other women lol..Or maybe we should shoot you first, you have bad genes too and after all it’s you short women who produce us short guys.

    Btw, make-up is cheating too, and you’re probably ugly without it.

  32. Jill says:

    People like Rosa give us women, and peeps in general, a bad rep! >.<

    • Personally, I think the negative example they set is important. It’s a standard to contrast from if anything. You’d be surprised how necessary that functionality is in society.

  33. Ila says:

    Wish I could get a fag but those bitches (THEY ARE SWEETIES JK) know I’m a female (without checking LOL?). They think my boobs are too BIG & REAL “ewwwww”. 36DD-36F (sadly had them reduced and still gross lol!!!!!!!!!!!) Straight dudes don’t like 5’11 (apparently they think we’re trannies)? So all us tall girls are virgins (haha tight but unwanted!!!!!!!!!) because straight men only like little gurls…… It’s all good!, please don’t call me a giant, amazon, piece of crap. I know how the world feels about me, I don’t give a fuk……… Just if there is a tall gurl out there don’t “think men are going to like you for you”, prefer tall women or any other lies. They hate us!!!!!! Move on…. they smell anyway lol

    • Anon. says:

      You sure it’s your height and not your mastery over English that puts men off? I’d say it’s the later…

      • B says:

        Oh, Anon. You always know just what to say.

      • Ila says:

        Wow, that is actually funny.. I have spent too much time texting my teen children, I always use “improper speech” when typing. I talk very well… I have a a masters degree and teach dyslexic children… Trust me that’s not the reason, but you gave me a laugh. I sound like a 12 year old emo! LOL gay bitchezzz in a good way

      • Anon. says:

        Well, there you go! Just goes to show you that judging people over the internet does not do justice to who they really are! Imagine if this were an online dating site!

    • Ila says:

      LOL!!! No I wouldn’t mess with that scary nonsense!!!!!!! It’s best to be overlooked in person :) Oh the good old days, for those of you crazy enough to try to meet people that way… If you are unattractive (for any reason) let it go. I was simply pointing out that tall women have some BIG problems (living the life people are expected to). In this world and here in NM short men have none……

      • Coal says:

        Are your boobs that big? Are you seriously a virgin? What’s your number

      • Apollo says:

        Hi Ila.

        Let me start by apologizing to you first and foremost OK. I’ve gotten a kick out of reading your responses, but you sound far beyond believable to be a woman speaking the truth. Excuse me? You are 5’11? Natural 36F cup breasts? Reduced for that matter? Straight dudes don’t like 5’11? Think you’re all trannies? I’m guessing the kids you are referring to aren’t biologically yours if you say you’ve never had a boyfriend or been on a date? Are you serious?

        Ila, I don’t think you understand a fraction of the mistreatment and hatred that is directed at shorter people by society in general and not just coming from taller people. At the same time, I wouldn’t dare say that I understand your situation because I don’t walk in your shoes and I do know there are guys who avoid approaching taller women in fear of of immediate rejection and public demasculinization. I’m not one of those guys and a lot of the times I wish you taller ladies would just look down and open your eyes to the shorter men of the world. Not all of us require an equally short or shorter lady to feel like a MAN. I like WOMEN not little GIRLS. Height doesn’t make a man or a woman who they are as a person either. It also must be said that our lack of height is more often YOUR problem. From my experience, tall women are the ones who use the excuse “guys only want the shorter girls.” You ladies know this isn’t always true but I think it’s used more by the taller ladies to sound less shallow with more self pity. Remember this, you women have the final say in the world of dating and relationships whether it’s you approaching the guy first or him making the first move to ask you out and you accepting him.

        So Ila, all I can say is look down for a change and keep an open mind and an open heart to the shorter guys of the world. You just might find a guy like me who will strive to treat you like the Queen that you are. BTW, I love, love, love, love, love, women with curves! It’s definitely part of the waist to hip ratio factor that turns me on! Big breasts, big hips, nice butt cheeks, long legs, and big sexy feet with nice long pedicured toes? What straight guy wouldn’t want a tall, lovely, voluptuous woman who’s well put together head to toe?
        It wouldn’t matter to me if she didn’t have the curves or the physical qualities because the mind is the greatest sexual organ if used properly. Still love dem long legs girl! Best of luck to ya!

      • Ila says:

        Hello haha I only speak the truth!!! Why I bother is a mystery? Why I looked on here after all this time idk? Am I a real women? No, according to many haha last time I looked or the damn gynecologist apparently so …..The kids are mine, there are lots of ways to gave children without ever being with a man. Mine belong to me & my gay bestie but there are other ways too. To fulfill your curiosity haha. No men are not interested in me & it’s not my unique problem. I see other “hideous” tall women have posted on this in my same situation. Go to tallwomen.org & it’s overwheming how none of us can get a man. Also google why men prefer short women & u will find out that 99.9% of men find us masculine, intimidating, and you’ll find comment after comment about about how we suck in bed, because apparently that’s all females are good for is throwing around and stuffing. Oh and we are loose “like the grand canyon” which I can guarantee is UNTRUE because we are unused!!!! I honestly don’t know how VS models even find men? I was that pretty when I was young without ever being touched or hit on!!! I don’t need luck, tall girls generally accept their plight & move on lonely you short guys do the same… Love is a joke & sex is for tall men and tiny hoes hahaha

    • Apollo says:

      So Ila, would you have a problem dating a shorter guy, say my size, 5’6? You might not have an issue being the taller person in a relationship but most tall women do. It’s rare for a tall woman to find comfort in a shorter guy because the height difference is a big concern for her. It’s one thing to accept being alone and moving on with life as you say, but it’s another thing to use that as an excuse against short guys. Tall women who complain about the difficulties of dating and their lack of attention from men only point to the tall guys ignoring them, not the shorter guys. It’s like our opinion doesn’t count because we don’t qualify as “men” based on our height. Do you really care that shorter guys ignore you? I don’t think you do based on what you’ve said here, but I could be wrong, right?! I honestly can’t see how tall women even care whether a shorter guy is interested in dating her when her attention is focused on dating the tall guy. Tall women have serious fears of public humiliation, if and when seen with a shorter guy. No woman wants to be embarrassed in public by people who bring attention to the shorter man on her arm. Funny how you mentioned your “gay bestie.” Nothing wrong with that if he’s the responsbible father of your children. At the same time, there are women who would rather pursue the challenge of turning a tall gay man straight because short men are so undesirable. Another thing, you just might be right about sexual relations. It seems nowadays that physical pleasure is reserved strictly for tall guys and little ladies unless you pay a sex trade worker to do the job for you. These tall men and short women couples are the ones hookin’ up, getting it on, getting married and later filling the courts with divorce proceedings and the family courts with custody battles. You say 99.9 percent of men find you masculine, intimidating, loose? Again, are short guys included in this 99.9 percent of men because I know short guys that don’t have a problem dating a taller woman. I actually welcome it! BTW, short guys aren’t necessarily “short” everywhere even though women seem to believe tall men are always better equipped. There is no scientific correlation between height, shoe size, hand size and what lies below the belt. You called yourself pretty when you were young, but why not now? How can you not be hot, especially with your natural curves? Have you lost your good looks? Lots of women are like fine scotch you know. They improve with age! Happy Holidays and best of luck to ya!

      • Ila says:

        Ok so? I probably would date a shorter man? 5’6 to my 5’11 probably not, as you say the public ridicule would be RIDICULOUS! Are tall women sensitive to public thought? Indeed INDEED! We get comments & BS you cannot imagine. If short men get it likewise many apologies ( in NM you’d have no worries!).
        My gay bestie to fufill curiosity was, is & always will be a faggotron ( I’m not turning him nor is any other bitch)!
        Are short men included in my “statistics”? I clearly know & understand men little! I only know fags, my brother& my son

      • Ila says:

        Ok so? I probably would date a shorter man? 5’6 to my 5’11 probably not, as you say the public ridicule would be RIDICULOUS! Are tall women sensitive to public thought? Indeed INDEED! We get comments & BS you cannot imagine. If short men get it likewise many apologies ( in NM you’d have no worries!).
        My gay bestie to fufill curiosity was, is & always will be a faggotron ( I’m not turning him nor is any other bitch)!
        Are short men included in my “statistics”? I clearly know & understand men little! I only know fags, my brother & my son? I do know all men I’ve encountered like tiny little bitches!!!!
        I wouldn’t know about guys “below the belt”??? I won’t comment.
        I was pretty when I was young (as I said unattractive to males though)? I looked alot like a supermodel? I’ve put on a few pounds & could not pass for that now :( I look older than I did so,,, did I lose my looks? Don’t we all! Am I ugly? Mmmm in the eye of the beholder I suppose? I think I look better than many women my age but since men have never agreed I must be ugly & in denial?

      • Max says:

        “the public ridicule would be ridiculous” A masters degree in what? Redundancy?

  34. Apollo says:

    Hi everyone. 5’5 guy here with my 2 cents to add to this thread.

    Sadly, women like Rosa do exist and it is disturbing. I get enough hate from short women who look to make my life miserable by trying to strip me of my manhood. I’ve been called “little boy, little kid, half man, waste of a face, shorty, peewee,” you name it. This is one of the reasons why I tend to avoid women my height and shorter. I don’t have much luck with the taller ladies either so I avoid them too. A lot of tall women demand tall men the same and insult the short guys who dare try. It’s still too embarrassing for them to be seen in public with a shorter man on her arm so they do their best to find excuses against us.

    There is an upside to being a short male and dealing with all the negative treatment from women. Women who have issues with short men are often easily spotted and can be weeded out. They aren’t worth your time to begin with. Their facial expression usually tells the story and I strongly believe it’s better to not be shot down in flames with insults rather than taking the risk to make conversation. I don’t approach any woman who rolls her eyes at me, gives me a dirty look or turns her head the other way if I make eye contact with her. The reformed heightists, multiple divorcees or single moms with kids sometimes look my way because most of the time the tall guys they so richly desire don’t find them attractive anymore. Some of these women figure short guys are easy pickings because we are the least desired of all men meaning there’s more of us available. That is true for some short guys because the desperation factor is very real. For me, this stuff doesn’t apply. I’m never going to put myself in a situation to be some chick’s rebound guy after years of bad relationships. Rebound guys get their pockets drained and their hearts shattered when the girl starts feeling better about herself. I have my pride and respect. Besides most of the time a woman can’t change her heightists “spots.” If she’s not going to give me the respect of who I am as a man because of my height, that’s ok because another woman will.

    They are hard to find but quality women who value strength of character, sense of humour, ambition, good manners and chivalry do exist. I haven’t given up on relationships with women but I don’t go out of my way to entertain them either. Being a short guy means learning to accept your height, who you are as a person and enjoying everything else that live has to offer without women.

  35. Roman says:

    The point is – short women should shut the hell up. It’s one thing to not be attracted, I get that.. but another thing to insult people for the way they are. I’m not particularly attracted to short women either, so does that mean I should call them names and throw jokes the first chance I get? That’d be outrages..cuz you know, how can you insult a woman for height…. But somehow it’s considered ok for them to make fun of men, cuz we don’t have feelings apparently. That’s messed up..

    • Apollo says:

      Exactly the reason why I’m extremely careful and very particular with respect to who I approach Roman. I can truthfully say that the really short girls and really tall girls have been the most disrespectful to me. Even the ladies closer to my height are just as abrasive and hurtful. I’ve experienced it first hand. Learning to accept my 5’5 frame and live my life without making relationships with women a priority has been a challenge but I’ve gotten used to it. Whenever I feel sad or alone, happiness comes quickly when I realize that I’m not suffering in a court room waiting on divorce proceedings, I don’t have to worry about kids and visitation rights between parents and I don’t have a woman draining my pockets for alimony and spending my hard earned dollars on her girlfriends. The divorce rate is sky high in todays world and I have no desire to contribute to that. Nor do I make myself available for a woman who’s trying to get it right the second, third or fourth time. It’s funny how marriage vows mean so little to people who repeatedly run to the courthouse when there’s a conflict of interest or difference of opinion. Staying together and working through a relationship doesn’t happen as much in todays world. What I’ve discovered is the times I’ve been hurt and disappointed the most is when I focused more on trying to make better relationships with women. The moment I started forgetting about that stuff and focussing on my own happiness, life got a whole lot better. Yeah, there are days when it does really suck to be short but I quickly remember that being single is a very good thing. Nobody to drag you down or nag you about who you are and what you do. Besides, I am at the point in my life where a woman who’s interested in me will make the effort to show me that she’s interested in me. I don’t waste time playing the superficial courting games anymore. I still smile and make eye contact with people though. If that isn’t enough of a sign for a woman that I’m interested in, that’s her problem and certainly no loss for me.

      • Ila says:

        Height short for you, tall for me is a curse ! Trying to get my kids to a food age & them I’m out 4 sure!

    • makeitlegal says:

      I honestly believe that prostitution should be legalized for this reason. Women think far too highly of themselves, and the fact that desperate men constantly validate them doesn’t help. I was going through a dry spell once while living abroad, and I couldn’t take it anymore and finally caved on the “pay for play” thing. I don’t know what it was, but my game was off, and I just needed to get laid. Funny thing was, I got my swagger back and I started getting laid like crazy. Dating two at a time, hiding gifts, having to clean up the bed after every night (cuz they all had different hair colors). Interestingly, I never got laid more than when I was also paying for it. It makes you less desperate, and lets you know that you’re going to get some (from a hottie pro who knows what she’s doing no less) regardless of whether or not some girl approves of you. Then girls see your swagger, and your back in the game. Also it allows you to curse angry words and pour your drinks all over dumb ppl like ROSA when you meet them in bars, because they’re no reason to cater to them. When these girls go without male attention for a while, or get a bit of abuse, they become less bitchy. I’m being serious about this. Contact your congressperson today because we deserve the same level of sexual services they enjoy abroad. Plus it cuts down on the human trafficking and the street walking when its legit. Instead of walking in the cold in miniskirts, girls who sell it are nice and warm behind a glass door with a red light. Does wonders for the service. :)

  36. Pingback: Women vs. Short Guys Revisited | It's Not a Match.com

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  38. Marc says:

    Roman and apollo bring up a good point! What would happen to a guy who insulted a woman he found unattractive? He would be considered an ahole and almost every woman would hear from friends how he treated this woman and he will instantly find himself unable to find dates regardless how attractive he looks. No woman would want to date a guy who was rude enough to insult a woman. It seems if a woman insults a guy she finds unattractive, it isn’t such a big deal.

    • Jessica says:

      They do it all the time! Loudly & in public! It’s especially bad in High School but it never really stops! I’m a tall girl and I have had some horrible things said about my height & my appearance. I hardly even go in public anymore because I am so self conscious. I go to work, grocery shop early and always keep my eyes down. When I see young men especially 16-26 I get away from them as fast as I can since they are usually the meanest!

      • Roman says:

        On behalf of the guys, I’m really truly sorry they hurt you like that. It’s outrageous, damn… I know it probably won’t make you feel any better, but I think tall girls are amazingly beautiful in a unique way.

        Best wishes..

      • Jessica says:

        Thanks for apologizing for all
        mean men out there…. Lol best wishes… Haha… Bet you get a pretty little girlfriend :)

  39. Nevertheless says:

    As a woman of 5’11, I can say I’ve dated shorter men and did my best to look past it. In fact, most of the guys interested in me are between 5’2 and 5’9. Let me tell you.. Two inches is A HUGE deal; and yeah, you can take that where ever your mind desires. Do short men realize how awkward it is to be bigger then your boyfriend? I felt guilt over being the tallest person in the house, boyfriend and roomies of either gender included. For women 5’7 and under, I cannot really understand; they have a lot of wiggle room and choice in the dating world. For those ladies like myself-who feel like we fell into a bag of fertilizer-we don’t have that much choice in the dating world when we‘re taller then the AVERAGE man. Guys like to feel that sense of masculinity -I presume-and women like to pretend they need that masculinity to make it through the day. Maybe our society is too ingrained with preset ideals of acceptable sexual dimorphism. I know the issues I had with being the tall woman dating the short man was that I wanted to at least be able to see my passive partner eye to eye instead of feeling like I was looking down at him. After a couple months, I started noticing that I was slouching and that he had purchased shoes with a bit of a heel to them.

    I think we were both feeling the need to even out the differences. If short men are mad that women won’t look past their height and get to know them, then there’s equal ire for tall women when they see 6’+ men dating women 5’5 and shorter. It’s preference. When you can’t understand a human being’s right to feel physically and psychologically comfortable with a partner they are with, then maybe you need to reevaluate what your standards in a relationship really are. Sounds like immaturity. If you’re 5’2, stop seeking out women you know are nearly six foot. Why set yourself up like that?

    • playyourpart says:

      First of all, if a guy is interested in a girl just because she has nice tits, he’s being a boor or a caveman, or so the saying goes by women. But I would say that you are an unevolved cavewoman. A man of 5’9 can protect you in this day and age, and either way, guns make a man’s height moot. Also, we don’t live in ancient times where people are bashing each other over the head all the time. You don’t NEED to be protected in the same way. We have police services, firearms, and civilization. If you were evolved and actually interested in a person for who they are inside, you could date some one shorter than you. Alas, you are another one of those women who needs to feel protection from a bigger man (and feminist say MEN are pigs? I beg to differ). Let me just say that you are an unevolved cavewoman, and don’t be surprised when your husband leaves you at 40 for a younger woman because that’s what his CAVEMAN instincts tell him thats what he should do. Enjoy middle age. :)

    • Arnold says:

      He can seek what he wants like you can…

  40. Marc says:

    Jessica,
    I’m sorry to hear that you were treated poorly by guys. I forgot to think about this when I posted. I knew a woman in high school who was constantly made fun of because of her looks and I imagine tall women face the same outragous behavior by men who never grew up. Both men and women can be cruel. I actually find tall women to be beautiful. I hope things get better for you and I cannot fathom ridiculing women who are tall or any other reason! Everybody (male or female) needs to realize the person they are harassing is a human being and doesn’t deserve to be made fun of. I wish you all the best and also apologize for what other men have done to you.

    Marc

  41. Coal says:

    Where can i find tall all these sad tall girls????I think they are hot!!!!!!!

    • B says:

      Am I gonna have to write a post about Women vs. Short Guys vs Sad Tall Women? Cause I’ll do it!

      • Jessica says:

        Well there is some short, nice guys commenting on here :) great another resson to wish I was tiny :(… So what are you B ? I bet a short lucky girl or like a 5’7 girl with no problems?

      • B says:

        Wait, do you think I’m a girl? Yikes. I gotta dude up my writing style a bit. I’m a man. Who is 6’2″. And has plenty of problems…

      • Jessica says:

        Haha yep u seemed like a total bitch midget girl haha I need to get a life lol
        …. I need to sleep good to take my 5’6 10 year old to his game seee finally an advantage for us nasty tall girls my son will take care of me :)….

    • Marc says:

      Ditto, I’d like to meet these tall women who can’t find any dates! Tall women are hot!

  42. lovkd says:

    I have noticed too on match.com, most of the men are so short, lol. I am 5 ft 4, and I dont want to be with someone 5 tf 5 or less, just makes me laugh a bit. Its easier to be shallow online because the ask us to pick what we like. Well of course we pick what would be ideal, just like the men. I mean really how many women love fishing, and camping like men do, or to ride all the time on a harley. Do non smokers wants smokers, probably not. There are also the people online who ask for money. I dont understand why these lonely people keep giving up money, for sure it works or they wouldnt still be doing it. I tried online for a month. Some of the matches were terrible, looked like men out of horror shows, lol. Some would ask just to meet for sex, some just wanted a mom replacement to care for their children. Men are just as shallow in differnt ways. They all want athletic and toned, but their pictures shows a big beer belly with they say is a few pounds heavier. yea sure LOL.. Alot of men want women 20 years younger, well we wonder why, unless they are rich and drop dead beautiful it wont happen unless the girls is missing some nuts and bolts somewhere.
    I figures out the best way was to meet in real life ways, much less stressfull and no surprises. Short men seem to flock to online sites, and widowed men lol. Imagine a man says I party hard and work hard, wonder what that date would be like lol.

    • bruce says:

      Only a dense person say’s Men (in general) are not shallow…I think a lot of the vitriol is induced because women claim the moral high ground…everyone has their preferences and is entitled to them…personally I want to exile all gingers to a remote, barren desert because they are all so {insert sterotype here}.

  43. Shelly says:

    i’m the steretoype of the wost, most offensive kind i’m afraid….tall, blonde, blue eyed chick/woman/girl/person/me…

    as a tall woman, i’ve never, ever had any problem whatsoever being asked out…but, i can’t say as i ever really held a guys height against him until maybe recently….shorter guys are just guys and one great thing about them is they are so compact and easy to carry around…very portable men…

    otoh, they tend to whine alot about that…

    i’m kidding, and hope you know that, but i’m not totally height discriminatory so much as i must admit to being a bit on the weight discriminatory, though not nazi-like about that either…and i admit i prefer men who bathe and have all their own teeth….like some of the angry short men here have said in defiance,”Sue me!”…

    all this dating failure is, i think creating great television somewhere i haven’t seen yet…mostly because i’ve only recently been allowed to leave the basement of my most recent internet date….

    oops, I think i hear his foot steps!!!

    will write more later….

    ok, it’s later…

    anyway, you short guys get on out there with your bad selves…but don’t be bad, be good…be polite…respect, not arrogance, is the key probably…

    • Jessica says:

      I am all of those things (tall, blue eyed naturally blonde.. although now have black hair) & boys/ men have always hated me? How tall are you? Did you never feel the pain that comes with looking so different? Just wondered? Your post maybe wasn’t that real though?

  44. bruce says:

    @shelly
    Hilarious! You can pick me up anytime

  45. shelly says:

    I’m not over 6′ before coming out of the dryer…

    Honestly, I’ve never felt any ‘pain’ from being tall not even when I was growing up. Are you sure you are hated for being tall? And I find it hard to believe ALL these males hate you. Do you hit them with bricks or something? I’ve heard a lot of men don’t really like that, no matter what they say on a first date. Maybe you’re taking the wrong approach to men?

    I also don’t think men pay as much attention to the details as they do the fuzzier, overall picture. IOW, they more see shapes than single eyelashes. When was the last time you heard two guys griping about a womans chin? I mean, if there wasn’t hair on it. Or the color of the ear ring stud she had in? Or which direction she swept her scarf over her shoulders? Women sometimes place A LOT of emphasis on stuff like this and in the process make themselves and everyone around them slightly insane. Which isn’t very attractive probably.

    I like looking different, but I don’t consider myself all that different. All things considered, I consider myself fairly average actually. People pay more attention to cute dogs than they do other people. So, get a cute dog to walk with you. You can be forgiven nearly anything if your dog’s cute. But, do not carry the damned dog in a purse or as a part of your attire. Tha’ts just plain dumb and not very nice to the dog.

    If my advice sucks, then you should bill the nearest attorney – ANY attorney – for your trouble.

    I think the truth is pretty evident; we get too brainwashed and pre-programmed to have outrageous expectations of each other. I think good manners are a good expectation any one should allow themselves to have and expect it of others. But thinking that all men are giants who could model for an expensive clothing or cologne company might be a nice thought, but it just won’t hold against reality. Men do the same to themselves. They want to play for the [insert current top pro sports team] or be [insert current top rock star], but don’t really cut the mustard for such aspirations. And I don’t think men are worse about this than women. I think that’s just what women tell themselves as an excuse to be self-centered. Princess Syndrome or whatever. You don’t HAVE to feel insecure about or intimidated by not being a supermodel. There’s a certain amount of choice in feeling that way.

    I don’t know how old you are or why men hate you, but if it’s for being tall and you’re a minor..just realize one day all the power will be yours to MOVE. If you want to ‘blend’ as a tall woman, try living in states where models are so plentiful you wll find other things to be hated about than your height.

    Less than men, btw, I’ve felt more hostility from women for beig tall. Like I got tall on purpose or have some secret elixir I’m not sharing. How’s that for shocking? The thing is, a catty remark here or there doesn’t exactly keep me from being happy.

    A lack of chocolate does.

    Sometimes, there are people in life that are just not going to like you. You have to decide for yourself how important their opinion is and what, if anything, you will do about it.

    No matter what, we’re all going to die one day. So I think it’s kind of important that you try to be as happy as you can until then. Hopefully, being happy doesn’t include hurting yourself or other people purposely.

    Are you still thinking about being tall or had you forgotten it for a moment? :)

    And Bruce, if you write that again I’m going to tell Mom!!

    • B says:

      I understand less and less of what goes on around here…

    • Jessica says:

      No I’m not a minor (34). I don’t know that men hate me (maybe I overstated) but they don’t ask me out. They make me nervous and have often in the past said hateful things to me.
      Thanks for the advice, I am scared of dogs though. I can’t move to “magic super model world” (I have kids that I can’t take out of state). Where is it located though?They’ll be 18 someday! I’m looking forward to feeling shorter!!!
      I never forget that I’m tall, sadly… But I’ve lived with it this long so no I would never hurt myself or others. I’m a nice shy person and don’t know how I ended up even posting things here?
      Thanks for your message, you seem like a nice person.

  46. Jon says:

    I don’t even know what the word “date” is, much less love. No women has ever given me a chnace. Ever. I have asked out countless women,, 99.9% of which were very average in the looks department and still regected. Everytime, not even a chance, not ever a 2 second “let me think itr over this guy seems nice” Nope, instead instandly turned down. I am 5’3″

    I am 33 years old and have never been able to attract a girl. Short woman are even worse because they date taller guys so they can one day have taller kids. When women say they care only about the “person” or the “personality” what they really mean is that they care only about the perosn or personality of the differnt tall guys they date. Short guys are never considered. It is a fact of life guys, just like the animal kingdom…survival of the fittest. The female anything will always be attracted to the taller stongest looking male.

    I have totally given up on finding love. It is a shame because I am a good guy, successful, and a lot to offer, but women don’t care about this. I try not to think about it, so now I have decided to focus my energy on saving money. My goal is to save 2 million dollars by the time I retire form the Navy (I am a naval officer) . With the 2 million and my pension, I should never have to work another day in my life. I plan to relax on the beach everyday enjoying a smoothie with good friends and indulge in my porsche passion.

    For all you single 40-50 year old ladies that find themselves single after years of abuse from taller better looking men, you should have considered giving all men a chance. I hope you enjoy spending the rest of your lives alone in poverty, you could have been living in with me in my beautiful home and driving my porsche GT3RS. What goes around, comes around.

  47. bruce says:

    Jon,

    You may dismiss what I am saying cause I’m taller than you (5’4″), but I am also in my 50’s with a bit of experience so here goes.

    Yes, for the most part, women (like many men) are as shallow as they come–they just are not as honest about it and like to hide behind euphemisms (ever here of ‘financially secure’…right…means must have lots of money to give me). But, there are some women, very attractive ones too, who are secure enough in their own selves to not give a rats ass about height. I’ve had numerous girl-friends (one even at 5’9″), was married (to a 5’7″ women for 18 years–and yes, she did leave me for someone who was 6’2″, but he also had ten or twenty million dollars too.)

    I’m not a great ‘player’, I am not that handsome, I am not even that “confident” but I am smart enough to look in the right places. The problem I think you are having is where you are looking.
    So, start looking where confident women go–and not the arrogant, I’m so great I can marry a 6’4″ handsome, trust fund manager–but the truly confident. Now where would that be…here’s a few ideas from experience: Adult education classes, especially language and off beat crafts (i.e., metal working)…better yet, have a skill? Teach a class (meet the 5’9″ women while teaching a cooking class).

    BTW: the 40-50 single women are even worse…so I’d solve the problem rather than hope for redemption.

  48. Sweet baby Jesus this comment section is long.

  49. DK says:

    OK, I have to put in my 2 cents because this article and the comments have me laughing out loud.

    I’m a man and I’m 5′ 4″. My experience with internet dating is minimal but the few months I put in, quickly made me realize how unattractive I appear on paper (or the computer screen). However, I don’t blame the ladies. Everyone has standards. Putting anyone down for their dating standard is just plain pointless. They can’t help what they find attractive. I admit, I only looked at profiles of women who got my attention via their photos and I was probably pickier than I’d like to admit.

    Now to my point.

    I don’t do internet dating. I go out and meet people. I’m confident and I don’t think about my height when I’m out. I talk to all kinds of women. I get rejected just as much as tall guys. Women are all attracted to things other than height alone and I date those women. I’m also bald. I dress like a male modes, that helps me. I have dated all kinds of women including a few women over 5′ 9″. Ford Agency models. Women can be attracted to you if you have something to offer other than height. All women!! I know it sounds like your parents preaching to you about how “Special” you are but really… ALL WOMEN ARE ATTRACTED TO CONFIDENCE. Ugly women, short women, hot women, tall women are all attracted to the same things: Mystery, confidence, ambition, masculinity, warmth, and humor… HUMOR is your ticket in if you lack any of the others. If you walk around like you’re thinking about how short you are, you’re done being attractive to ANY woman.

    To all my short friends: Forget internet dating!
    Cheers!

    • DK says:

      Ooops… That’s supposed to read “I dress like a male MODEL”.

      …on that note, I’m also not rich, so I have to spend money wisely on clothing. As a short man, I find that American clothing companies make clothes for tall or fat people, so I buy most of my clothes from Asian hip clothes outlets online.

      OK… cheers, for real this time!

  50. Sarah says:

    I feel like I should share this story mostly because it cracks me up. To start, I’m 5’10” and feel like I am decently attractive if not better. I was in a department store after work and still wearing these red suede pumps with just over a 4″ heel. For those that can’t do math, puts me conveniently right around 6’2″. Well, while I am on my way out, an older gentleman approaches me, asks if my shoes are comfortable and starts a pretty genial conversation with me while his wife is shopping. Things only got bad/weird when he says to me:

    “You know, you’ll never find a husband in shoes like that”

    Seriously?

    Sadly though, this isn’t the first and probably won’t be the last time that someone judges me for being a tall, confident woman. I’ve had all sorts of people from women to men ask me why I wear heels if I am already so tall. The answer of course is because I like them! They make my long legs look amazing and I feel sexy in them.

    The problem though, as one who has tried so hard to be open minded about dating short guys.. I had a spur of the moment lunch date yesterday with a guy who is about 5’9″ and at the end he went for the hug. Yet again I’m wearing amazon shoes that flatter my figure but leave me with two choices: stand awkwardly while he puts his face directly into my boobs or bend and draw even more attention to the fact that he has to look up at me. So I bend, we hug and it was almost not awkward until he outright brings it up “Aw, you had to bend down to meet me to hug” and makes a face like I shot his puppy.

    So, to creepy department store guy, and short guys, and the stupid short girls that begrudge me my heels. I am tall and sexy as hell and I will wear my heels when I damn well feel like it. Apparently, as a tall, intelligent, succesful woman…. Men are absolutely terrified of me. When I wear my heels out I may not attract as many men because of how intimidating I look but the ones that actually approach me will either be A. height appropriate or B. confident enough to make it not awkward that I am taller than them. Worst thing you can do is be self conscious about it.

    Though I won’t lie, if I was building my perfect man, Ken doll style, he would be 6’2″ plus. It just makes life easier. People are fortunately neither perfect nor dolls. Think how boring life would be if they were.

  51. Anon. says:

    More power to ya Sarah… I’m 5’8” and sometimes I get the same treatment from women (or should I say the “reverse” same treatment?). Personally, I think tall women are sexy as hell– in fact I encourage women to wear heels…

    I’m reaching a point where I think tall women should start dating shorter guys for 3 reasons:

    1) It will help the confidence of shorter guys– I mean, if you date someone that’s 3-4 inches taller than you, what do those shorter girls know? I’ll tell you what they don’t know: what they’re missing!

    2) It will help the confidence of taller women– chances are, most guys are gonna be shorter than you anyway and the shorter guy will know first hand what height-ism does to one’s confidence. You may as well get it outta the way and acknowledge the height difference and own it. Who knows? If you get comfortable enough with each other you could even joke about the difference as well!

    3) If you’re a short guy dating a tall girl, that’s a instant status upgrade. Who dates taller women than themselves? Rock stars, movie stars and millionaires. It works vice-versa too… The other guys and girls who see you out with a shorter guy will think he’s some kind of big shot or something… It’s a win-win…

    • Shadow K says:

      I’m 5’6 and I don’t mind either taller or small as long as they are sexy. Actually I’m dating a 6’0. She doesn’t wear her high heels with me but she is damn sexy. I love it.
      I first taught that sex would be awkward, dealing with these long leg… but hey, I actually used my imagination and it all good… in fact I like her to keep her high heels and stockings . I love legs… ^_^

    • Shadow K says:

      Actually, I had a problem with taller women (often taller because of their heels) feeling awkward when we were together holding hands…. I mean, I remember one of my date constantly looking at other people who were looking at us (mostly women) and telling me “what is she looking at”.
      And I’m contently saying things like “she’s jalouse” or “I don’t care”, “let them look”, “so what” or “why ?”
      I’m 5’6 and trust me guys most girl are either my size or shorter. I noticed a big the difference depending on places I’s going out to. If you go in fancy places than you can be sure that girls we’ll be wearing high heel and the problem is really that they are consient of people looking at them when the shortest guy is chatting them up (often me)… but when I go to places like underground places… there, the girls don’t wear high heels and you’d be like… hmmm what the **** ? why are girls all short in here ? (ok not all, but many)

      Finally, let me give you trick. Go out with taller friends who knows you well and with whom you have fun. Tall girls won’t be as embarrassed talking/chatting with you when guys taller than her are with you… I might going to sound like an asshole her, but in fact I have to friend who are both tall and handsome 6’2 and 6’4… and I actually use them to attract girls. ^_^

      also,

  52. No, Really, I'm 27. says:

    I am tall enough: 5’11”. What really kills my internet love life however is that I have twin widow peaks and I am only 27. Sure, I can hide it well enough with a few clever point of view techniques, but once they see me in person all bets are off. Even on my profile, I look like I am 32 or something. I guess I could shave it all off, but then I would look even more like ‘creepy older dude who lies about his age trying to get college girls’.

    I think I am okay with at least getting the first date until Match adds a ‘Hairline: Age-appropriate or receding?’ question.

  53. shortmen says:

    This is the reality of dating as a 5’4″ male:

    – Earn $300k / year as a doctor
    – Harvard degree
    – Great sense of humor and personality, with MANY female friends
    – Extremely fit and built ‘like an underwear model’ according to nearly all females and routinely got catcalled by the ladies in sporting events in HS
    – Above-average facial looks (confirmed by the ladies)
    – Ok, not too much hair on this one =)

    Dating: EXTREMELY difficult. I routinely get scooped by uneducated, unattractive, and even grossly misogynistic men, I suspect mainly due to the height issue. Going out on the town is a complete, utter loss – dont even get a single acknowledgment from new ladies. It literally takes heroic efforts from me just to get the attention of any woman.

    Being 5’4″ is wayyyyy harder than being a 5’11” female – no question about it. Females can ALWAYS find a man, as long as they lower their standard to a certain level (whether you want to do that it a different question). In contrast, a very short man can almost NEVER find a woman, even with essentially zero standards. It’s not even a close comparison, honestly.

    There is a silver lining though for the very short men – the few women who did give me a chance were amazed with what they found. It’s a bit strange to go into every date knowing that there’s a nearly 100% chance that they will fall head over heels in love (not just attraction) with you within the first date (since they’ve gotten over the height factor to some degree if they agree to go out with you in the first place), whereas odds are far, far higher that you will not feel similarly, as you’ve had to lower your standards by extraordinary margins just to find someone willing to even give you the time of day.

    • B says:

      i don’t know man, you kinda sound like a dick to me…

      • shortmen says:

        The stats are only left as hard objective proof of desirability in the adult dating world.

        Yes, income is a terrible determinant, but for online and even casual dating polls, for men, consistently ranks as the single highest ranked characteristic desired by females over 25. (Whether that’s a good thing is highly doubtful.) Think of it similarly to men choosing ‘slender’ women in their personal ads selection – it plays out to about the same weighting. So the number is put out there to show that even with this formidable stat on my side, it still cannot overcome the consequence of being short.

        Feel free to think I’m a dk – my plentify women friends support and true friendships are more than enough for me to know that I’m not.

        It’s sad however that tall *dks* have a far better chance of success than caring, successful short men. It’s just reality, and not altogether as unfair as the hottie but total personal disaster BTCH girl who gets the attention of every guy on the planet compared to the plump but incredibly talented, smart and loving girl next door.

    • bruce says:

      Tall women never have to compromise. True, they have a slightly smaller pool of potentials (esp. if they are still fixated on the at-least-head-taller than I syndrome and due to the pedophilic bent of some 5′ 8″ plus guys) but there are plenty of 6′ 4″ guys who’d date someone who is 5’11. Most “super-models– or even just average models–are at least 5’9”.

    • Jessica says:

      Well I think you are wrong, but that’s ok!!! I have never been asked out in my whole life! I would probably say no to 90 – 95% of men anyway but what a diss to never have even had a man ask you… I went to get my hair done last week ( I have really pretty hair, my best trait) and my hair dresser was bugging me why I’m not daring & stuff, so I told her I’ve never had a boyfriend, dated etc. & she was genuinely surprised! She asked “why”? I said I don’t know men are disgusted by me maybe my height? She told me how beautiful I am & that she’s shocked ( she seemed surprised genuinely)! I was recently approached by a young teenage girl who literally was asking me if I was Anna Nicole Smith (but said I was so smart to fake my death, lose the weight & get my hair dyed dark)? These strange things happen to me? So if I look like a thin, dark haired Ana (I think she was very pretty) then why don’t men like me ? So I must conclude that men simply do not like tall women & find them unattractive!

      • Briar says:

        I’m 16. I’m the same height as you. I am so sad I finally got asked on a date. This boy told me too take off my clothes because he was going to teach me to model when I said no he said fuck off tall ugly bitch then he slapped me and said he’d kill me if I didn’t suk his ****. Then at school he told everyone and said he only went out with a tall ugly whore because I’m easy. I pretend to be sick now and I am flunking. Please help me! You are lucky no body hurt you. You are right though tall girls are so hated! I just wish I had been ignored,

      • bruce says:

        ’cause most men are pussy’s…go ahead, find someone YOU like and ask them out…geez…if you really look like you say, and don’t emanate “psycho’ from every pore, I guarantee you’ll have a date within a week.

      • Jessica says:

        Briar,
        I’m so sorry that happened to you. Boys can be very cruel! I can tell you though that bad things and mistreatment happen way to much to girls your age (not just tall ones)! Are you able to talk to your mom or another adult? Maybe they can help you! You need to go to school, playing sick is just going to keep you from reaching your goals! High School is so hard without all of that going on. I will have you in my prayers!

  54. bruce says:

    Right, because 300K a year and 5’4″ = DICK while 300K and 5’11” = successful.

    (But, ok, yea I wouldn’t necessarily befriend someone who’s first comment is how much he makes and his profession…but we are talking about a women’s perception of desirability–then again, they still might think he’s a dick–at least that’s what they tell their GFs after every date)

  55. Guillaume says:

    Well all I’ll say is this: the women who disregard profiles online from guys shorter than 5’8” absolutely deserve to live their lives unloved and alone. A guy can be smart, sweet, fit, full of attention… and you won’t even give him the time of day because of a trait he was born with and can’t change?

    I hope you like cats.

  56. Jessica says:

    Bruce,
    I wouldn’t know what I liked? I would never have the self confidence or experience to ask out a guy. I’ve created a life for myself where I’m rarely around men my age. I can’t exactly attack strangers on the street & ask them out. The poor treatment I’ve had has made me tooo scared & now I’m too old. I more wonder at my situation, I don’t need to change it.

    • Irena says:

      I know I was referred to
      by an asshole as “ultimate big game hunting”… Wow, no thanks go hunt something else! I’m 6’0. It sucks!!! Short men you are lucky!there are always ladies taller than you who will “settle”! Us tall ladies repel, disgust, turnoff, INTIMIDATE, or whatever all men other than fetish creepers who want to “big game hunt”? I’d rather not be hunted thanks!

      • Irena says:

        I meant short ladies who will settle us tall bitches never settle unless you are a millionaire or rock star!

      • Mario says:

        Short men are lucky??? Not lucky in love that’s for sure!!! Straight up if it wasn’t for bad luck, I would have no luck at all HAHAHA!!! I’ve heard Brits and Aussie guys call women “birds” on numerous occasions, so maybe scoring with a taller girl means successful “game” hunting???!!! FYI, NOT all short guys are turned off or disgusted by taller women like you say. It is very true that some guys who are average in height and taller are intimidated. Their height is who they are. It’s like you’re stepping over a boundary. I’ve heard nuff tall chicks use the intimidation excuse to feel sorry for themselves, making it easier to justify avoiding the shorter guys.

        Question. Why is it considered a fetish when a short guy is attracted to a taller woman but perfectly normal when a super tall guy towers over his super short girlfriend by a foot or more? Sounds like a bit of a daddy complex to me?! Do tall chicks have “mommy syndrome” with shorter guys? Seems common for them to feel this way. Look it up on the net, it’s there. Tall women say they feel like a mom with her infant son, a sister with her little brother, an aunt with her nephew and sometimes a babysitter with someone’s little kid. BTW, good luck with your quest to marry a millionaire or rock star! They don’t grow on trees you know! Don’t worry, I’ll play my guitar for you and serenade you to the stars!!! Heck, I might even a write a song for you.

      • Irena says:

        Hi there Mario! No I also think its repellent and pedophile like when huge men go for tiny women. Watch an episode of Kris playing with Kim & you’ll see. I’m not on a quest to find a rich or old man, I just notice they are more forgiving of us “big girls”? Damn I hate being called big! Half the women I know would outweigh me if they were even 5’7! I just think short men are less unlucky, perhaps unlucky too. Good luck, serenade someone worthwhile!

  57. Katie Que says:

    I don’t have time to read all these comments, but it appears that people are really upset about this. I’d just like to say two things:

    1) I love cats.

    2) If women want to feel surrounded, they could always try one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straitjacket

  58. English is devolving slowly and surely on this comment thread.

    • B says:

      Agree. I think everyday about when to cut this off. But…people seem to like it…

      • Marla says:

        Ok, I know people like this. I don’t know why, however this is a hot button issue.!? I’m an “average” girl of 5’7. My boyfriend is a short/ average guy of 5’7. I’ve dated guys 5’4 ( I was 5’4 then too) to 6’2. I’ve never had a shorter guy proposition me that I was interested in ( but that was NOT due to height!) & has rarely happened. One shorter guy had a leporard skin mohawk & that is why I didn’t like him. Need I say more? I’ve never thought about height too much in general. So, why am I looking here & commenting? I’m a sociology major & this came up in class & WOW it got a crazy & huge reaction. A tall girl cried & left class, this girl I always thought was probably a side line super model who had to fight off men with a an Angels bra, two shorter guys yelled at everyone & I mean yelled , two very short girls yelled at them more loudly, etc. The average height rest of us and the tall guys looked dumbfounded! My professor said she has seen this before & that this subject often creates (like in our semester) more heated debate than any other subject including abortion, war, & drug use? WOW! I’m thinking of doing my thesis on this & would love to hear more thoughts & am astounded by the dialogue on this & other message boards concerning this subject!

      • 2Short4U_Lolz says:

        @Marla

        This is absolutely a “hot button” issue.

        The Internet dating experience has revealed a behaviour that can be only seen as pure bigotry. Yes. That is a strong word, but it is fitting. Aversion to height can neither be founded in primal instincts (“I can’t help it”, “I need to feel protected” for example) nor euphemised by truism (“it’s my preference” – what else would it be? Is one channelling the preference of some random person 1,000 Km away? Please.)

        The truth is that it feeds on an exaggerated desire to feel superior over one’s peers. Often, popular culture defines what is admired (often to the point that one’s own desires are suppressed.) This need is stronger in those that have lower self-esteem (and therefore have to “show off” to the world that they are worthy because they have a perceived trophy.) It is like only desiring to drive a Porsche and believing that having that desire makes yourself as prized (the reality of course is that there are many automobiles of similar performance, but most don’t realize it, so one’s peers won’t be impressed – see what I am saying?)

        How often do we see the tired old excuse of “It’s the same as men not wanting women who are substantially overweight”? Wrong. This is an incorrect assessment on many levels. No person makes himself or herself short. No amount of self-administered diet will increase height. Aside from rare (actually very rare) cases excessive fat is not due to uncontrollable glandular problems – yet people try to equate height and weight as both a “roll of the die”. Most men don’t have the restriction of “must be a Barbie doll” that many a height restrictor likes to see as exoneration for their prejudice.

        Furthermore, how many men actually state something like, “No one with a BMI over xx please, it’s just my preference, besides I like to wear tight jeans and I don’t want my date to have even tighter looking clothes.” Compare that to the very often encountered, “No one under xx please. It’s just my preference and I like to wear heels.” The data shows that many men base decisions on what one makes of what they were given. In contrast, the height bigots base their filter on dubious conclusions based on what one happened to get without any choice.

        Contrary to what those who profess this “choice”, it is not a shallow behaviour. It is deep and really speaks of immaturity and self-esteem issues. To most men a woman can be beautiful regardless of their height (It’s innate and immutable, but not an essential element to the art of being a desirable person.) However to the height bigot, a man shorter than average is somewhat less of a man. Should he be substantially under the average, he is pariah. Should this man speak out, he is a Napoleon. Should he work out, he is a muscular Napoleon and trying too hard. Should he ask her out, she is insulted.

        The frustration exhibited by the shorter men in your class is not surprising. Cannot you imagine the daily experience of being excluded due to something that was neither in your control nor in any true way a limitation of how fine a person you can be? If one rarely gets opportunity because of the prejudice of others, is that not wearisome? As it has been noted, it is no different than racism (including how some proudly promote it.)

        I can understand the reactions of the very tall girl. Before she developed the super model attributes, she was just a lot taller than most girls. In those youthful (and essentially immature) circles, she was likely ostracized and ignored. The topic brought up feelings of undeserved isolation. Go give her a hug when you get the chance.

        The two very short girls (the ones who yelled at the shorter guys) have no reason to be so reactive. I may be due to other things, but their height is not a common factor. In general, men do not hold their nose up at shorter women (even the very short ones.) Have a look at some dating sites. You will see a notable amount of short women with “height restrictions.”

        Consider if the colour of ones eyes determined your grade in your class. Would you not find that absolutely maddening (especially when you know you are top-student material.) What? Find another class? Let’s remember the prevalence of classes that have the same “restriction”.

        Abortion, warfare, drug abuse and bigotry: these are all choices or a result of choices (with the possible exception of armed conflict since it may be a necessary reaction due to things like, say, bigotry.) One’s height is not, yet it is used as a means by some to bar one from participating in one of the very core human desires: to be socially considered.

  59. Hannibal Hamlin says:

    I recently signed up for two online dating sites. I tried this two years ago, and back then I listed my height as 5’9”. I wasn’t consciously lying — I actually thought I was a legit 5’9”. Maybe I measured myself with shoes on back then, or maybe I’m just an idiot, but a few months ago I remeasured myself and realized I barely scrape 5’8”. This made me severely depressed.

    I’m far too shy to message girls, so I rely on girls messaging me. I got a lot of messages back then. Now? Not so much. It’s hard for me to not think it’s because I “shrank” an inch.

  60. Andrew Harris says:

    First of all, this is a great thread! I’d like to add my two cents on the issue. I agree with all of the posters who have said that confidence is key. That is a fact! I am a guy who stands all of 5’6″, and I have never had a problem getting dates, and have rarely stayed single for long. Women are attracted to confidence. If you have a great sense of humor, you are intelligent, and you make them feel special, trust me, they’ll be all about you.

    That being said, here is what I DO take issue with. Women tend to set a double standard, as per usual. What do you think most women would say if a man stated in no uncertain terms on his dating profile “Attention! I do NOT date women with boobs smaller than a DD cup”? I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that 99% of women would call him a shallow pig. Yet, it’s okay for them to set a height requirement and somehow that’s not shallow.

    I have discussed this with MANY women and almost ALL of them seem to think it’s different than a man being attracted to big tits. Women: It’s NOT. It’s the same thing. Both are phsyical attributes that have nothing to do with the character or quality of the person. So here’s the deal: I’m a short guy and I don’t give a flying fuck at a rolling donut if you have a height requirement. There are women who will date me, and they’ll get their world rocked. You are the one missing out. However, DON’T try to pretend like wanting to date tall men is less shallow than any preference a man holds. Using excuses like “I like to wear heels” or “I like to feel protected” is just an effort to justify the fact that you’re shallow. If you want to be shallow, go for it, but be an adult and own it. That is all.

    • Marc says:

      How can a short guy build confidence when they are repeatedly shot down by woman and even total jerks who happen to be tall are considered more attractive by women. There was I guy here on wordpress who created a blog because a woman had created a blog about short men and used him as an example. Her rants are what you hear from hate groups such as the KKK. She would not allow him or others to post comments criticising her so he created a blog primarily to respond to her accusations. I don’t have the address of his blog but he calls his blog “Marc’s boring blog” and was making rebuttals to her. She recently “been censored” as she claims on her blog named “shortmenareugly” that Marc “got the police involved”. I’m curious if there are a lot of women who hate short men enough to make rants that you normally hear from the KKK. She hardly even knew Marc and claimed to go on a date with him when Marc claims he has no idea who she is and didn’t go on a date with her!

      • Marc says:

        I’m the Marc who created this blog by the way.

      • bruce says:

        Well, as I have said before, the attitudes of some women border on the same level as racism. I don’t see a difference between: “I prefer my neighbor be white” and “I prefer my date be tall”. (And obviously, “I prefer my date to be white” is racist IMO. BTW: You’re entitled to your preferences–but your racist.)

    • Lemon Drop says:

      Yes but men are only attracted to petite women so the boob thing is irrelevant! It’s ALL about height plain & simple !!!!!!! Lil girls wirh, big men NO BODY else is included ! !!!!! I’m a short lil 5’6 & tooooooooo tall for lots of guys I cry for the really tall girls in here I’m pretty much average & I’m toooo tall for guys, what fuckin perverts!!!!!

      • Andrew says:

        Lemon Drop, that’s not true. Not all men like petite women. Height doesn’t matter to me at all, I generally go for curvy girls.

      • B says:

        I like that the name Lemon Drop is being used in a serious conversation…

  61. Andrew Harris says:

    Oh, and the whole protection thing is a joke. Ladies, let’s try an exercise. How tall does a man have to be to protect you, exactly? Can a 6’4″ man protect you? Yes? Great. How about a 6’2″ man? Yes? Great. Now wait, can a 6’2″ man still protect you against a 6’4″ guy? What about against a 5’2 guy with a .357 Magnum? Okay. So can a 5’10” guy protect you? Yes? Good. So how about 5’8? Yes? What about 5’7″? No? What about 5’7 1/2? 5’7 3/4″? I am curious to know where the height cutoff is here in terms of protection and I’ll buy shoes with appropriate heels. Or just have inserts put in my shoes like Tom Cruise.

    Statistically speaking, your odds of dying in a car accident are almost as high as your odds of dying as the victim of a violent crime. So, statistically, you’d be just as “protected” by having safe driver as a requirement. If you’d like, you can talk to my insurance agent. He’ll tell you I haven’t had a single accident in the last ten years.

    • bruce says:

      you forgot to add 5’3″ tai chi chan masters…

    • Lemon Drop says:

      Any man bigger than us can protect us ! Sadly BIG men want to ” protect ” the tiniest girls ? So short dudes have no one to protect & tall women are unprotected!? I’m not even tall & my height makes men dislike me ! ? Short men &
      Tall women or taller than 5’2 women get ready to be alone !!!!!short men & shorter than 5’9 doomed so…

      • Jessica says:

        Wow no wonder I’m doomed ! Any girl over 5’2? I think they should start making sure girls stay short if it’s that bad, I always felt angry my parents didn’t make sure I didn’t get so tall but to keep me 5’2 they would have had to intervene when I was 8.
        Are parents (& doctors) not educated about this? And is there not hormone therapy for men to get taller when they are younger?

  62. volonte says:

    As a 6ft 3 tall man (45 years young) I can say that being tall has it’s privelages no doubt. I am considered handsome (told many times by different women) athletic-slim weight at 185 pounds, great social skills (former events promoter and party organizer) and over all fun, intelligent charismatic person.

    Over the years I have people watched (especially at bars and nightclubs as a band leader performer) and noticed a couple of tried and true facts: Women usually get caught up into conversations with TALL CONFIDENT men PERIOD. I can tell by their body language when tall guys approach them (they toss their hair or flick it or twist their locks and smile big wide teeth revealing smiles).

    I also notice when the shorter guys (less than 5’7 ish) do their approaches and get rebuffed or cock-blocked by the wing girl.

    When I see this, I pay attention to the poor short guy desperately going from girl to girl almost like puppy dog trying to get attention from it’s master. It is sad how these women treat these guys. Meanwhile the tall guys chatting up a storm with multiple women throughout the evening with no problem of engaging etc.

    As for me? Talking, charming and being off the cuff is what I do, along with a razor sharp wit and sarcastic bent in the humor department to get women (et’s just say engaging is no problem) but my question is: Is it soley because of height that ladies over the years engage with me in the first place? I have the good fortune to be rich and get super-model types and also to be “poor “and get the same super model James Bond femme-fatal types as well (even when I lived in my van back in the day).

    My current girlfriend is 22 year old, 6ft tall German-Polish fashion model (and right now thanks to the stock market and real estate market I AM NOT RICH, so that is not the reason she is with me..trust me) She told me she has dated guys that were shorter than her and never thought about the height difference. I believe especially outside of American that wome look far beyond height and materielism when seeking a mate. I have seen it while living and travelling abroad over the years. It is true. So guys, especially shorter guys, get your selves over to Russia, Holland, Germany, Thailand, or Poland. You will qualify if you are trustworthy, caring, and honest as person. Height is not important to them like in America. There is no long laundry list of requirments abroad.

    Here’s my conclusion:

    I would have to say there is a certain “winning edge” with tall guys because we do not have the hang up of being ” too short” in the eyes of women therefore we feel no pressure other than to be generally presentable and groomed etc.

    Maybe you want too see my video on the subject of tall vs short men and why women prefer them…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opz0ExlT6Co

    • Jessica says:

      I watched the vids on YouTube. You are cool to me since you like tall girls! I wish more men did. Is the polish girl with the short hair on the video your girlfriend? Very cute couple! Does she ever feel down about her height? Just wondering?

      • volonte says:

        Jessica,

        Yes that Polish girl (“izzy”) is my girlfriend. As for her being tall, well she does not even think about it. Her sister is also 6ft tall and her brother is 6 ft 7.

        I asked her about it and her reply was, “I have always been taller than my classmates, but my brother is even taller.”

        She is lucky cause she is very feminine and walks very erect ( aka carries her height well).

        Cheers,
        Volonte

      • Jessica says:

        She’s beautiful! I’m so glad you treat her well! Make tall beautiful babies! Hopefully boys! Peace!

      • Arnold says:

        Your heightism is showing…

  63. Marc says:

    Since women in the USA and other countries won’t even talk to short men, is it a genetic trait that women have? If not are there any foreign countries where women aren’t so picky and may consider men who aren’t tall?

    • Marc says:

      I don’t want to monopolize this message board but I would like to know how tall women feel about dating short guys such as 5’2″. I’ve heard tall women complain that men won’t go out with them because they are tall. I find all kinds of women attractive including tall women. Are tall women interested in dating a short guy who finds tall women to be beautiful? Also anyone answering if women seeking tall men is a genetic trait or learned trait and if not genetic are there countries where there are women who are willing to consider short men would greatly be appreciated. I’m interested in knowing if it’s a natural trait for women to prefer tall men. I also am interest in know how tall women feel towards short men who find tall women to be beautiful?

      Thanks in advance,

      Marc

      • bruce says:

        Well I obviously can’t answer the part about tall women’s view on dating short men, but having spent some time studying behavioral genetics I would say that the “height” preference is learned social behavior derived from the genetic predisposition to choose the “best” mate for species propagation. Consider the Bushman people of central africa. They are shorter (average height is less than 4 feet) as a genetic method to succeed in their environment. (Its suspected the smaller frame is provide less exposure to the sun and limited evaporation loss.) So, there, I think you’d find women SHUNNING taller men.
        In other environments there might be a genetic predisposition to taller men, but mostly its more of “alpha” ascendency. (i.e., who can beat up who).

      • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

        Is the desire for taller-than-average men genetically wired? No. The natural instinct excuse is just that, an excuse. It makes it easier to hold a prejudice when one can claim that it isn’t due to one’s own irrational thinking.

        If it were genetic (and to the level we see reflected on internet dating sites) you would think that even natural variation couldn’t keep up the supply of shorter men. Yet, the spectrum of adult height only follows access to a richer diet (and not that of the Internet female “preference” to mate only with taller men.)

        The elevated rate of height restriction (it’s no longer a preference when it is used as a filter) we see on the Internet gives us a lot of clues into the true nature of the behaviour.

        Let’s be honest here.

        An attractive woman (physically, and emotionally) should have little problem in getting enough offers in the real world to make a suitable mate selection (barring those living in an all-female society like a women’s prison.) Yet, what do we see online? The photos are often attractive enough. It can then be deduced that it must be the other part of the equation that is the issue.

        What’s that issue?

        The amount of hostility shown towards the exiled (as in the shorter man) is evidence of poor self-image, immaturity and low self-esteem in the observer. The way some of these “love to laugh, and looking for a genuine man” advertisers thumb their noses at shorter men is equivalent to how racists egg each other on in taunting and denigrating ethnicities they consider “beneath” themselves. Really. Do the test. Replace “below xx in height” with “visible minority” and see how wonderful that online profile looks.

        Look how often attempts are made to derail any discussion on “why are women adverse to shorter-than-average men”: The false notion of some equally prevalent irrationality like “men require breasts of xx size”; The incomparable “weight” restriction; The plight of taller than average women; etc. This last hijack has some evidence in support but it is not anywhere near the banishment that shorter men face. The first two? They are inapplicable comparisons and are only used to detract from the real discussion.

        Again, the truth behind height restriction is obvious.

        Popular culture (and especially North American popular culture) builds the notion that 6 ft or above is worthy (and that shorter than average is unworthy.) Women who have a self-perception of having been out-competed in the real world (real or not,) need to impress their peers with a “trophy.” This trophy is the idealized, “6 ft hunk.” Anything “short” of average is conceding “defeat.”

        Why this seems to have suddenly cropped up with the Internet is that the medium provided a quantum leap in functionality and accessibility. The paradigm was always there – it just lacked the ease of execution. Throw in a dose of lowered self-esteem to drive the need to feel superior, and voila, the Internet dating “height restriction” is in full effect.

        Next up: the protection misconception.

        If it height was a major determination in pugilism, you would think that boxing and wrestling would have “height” classes. Yet they don’t. They have weight classes. Certainly, they do mention reach in the “tale of the tape” but they still do not segregate by height.

        Furthermore, in reality, the far bigger factors in fighting (barring the elements of surprise, numbers and weapons) are that of skill and experience. Speed (ducking is ever so important) and resilience (you can’t duck them all) are next. Strength would be next. Size follows that (not height, but size). Remember this is real fight where anything goes. You aren’t in high school and there are no referees.

        On the streets, I will bet that any attacker will bring the game winning factors of surprise, numbers and weapons (it was no different 10,000 years ago – they just didn’t have streets.) In that sense, the best protector will be the guy with the brains to keep you and him out of that situation (and should you be in such a scenario, depending on state laws, that .357, stun-gun, baton, chair etc. will be far handier than 5 extra inches of height.) Also, one has to wonder, just what kind of life is one leading such that the requirement for this kind of protection is so high on the list of needs?

        In that sense, find the rich guy. Regardless of his height, he can afford to hire a whole entourage of bodyguards.

      • volonte says:

        Marc,
        Again I would say places like Costa Rica, Italy, Holland, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Thailand, Greece and maybe even Japan…oh possibly Mexico as well.

  64. George says:

    I’m a short guy myself, but there is a biological explanation for it. Historically going way back to hunter gatherer societies and our ancestors, women have had a main priority to be responsible for child bearing and raising the children, and the men for protecting the family and bringing home the food. There’s a a school of thought out there that says that over thousands of years of these social patterns, from an evolutionary standpoint, it’s natural for men to be attracted to women who show strong signs of healthy child bearing ability (slim waste, youthful, etc.). However, it is also natural for women to be attracted to men who show strong signs of being the protector (tall, masculine, strong features). Now I realize how sexist this sounds in our modern society, and our social patterns have indeed changed. But many would argue that this “attraction preference” is somehow hard wired in our biolological attraction process. This sounds dim for many other short males like myself, but research has also shown that while superficial physical attraction gets people in the door, it doesn’t keep them there. The other components of common interests, common education, values, etc. are what really keep people together. Getting in the door is really the hard part for us. I think though if you are a short guy, you find find better luck with a female that is completely self-sufficient and secure with herself. The need to feel protected sometimes comes from a lack of certain things. And there are women out there who could care less you are a bit shorter. There is no need to lie at all, just be yourself and someone who is worthy of you will appreciate you for you.

    • bruce says:

      Correct, but wrong conclusion. Yes, there is a genetic disposition for males and females to prosper in their different roles; however, height (for example) and “slimness” (for another) are not necessarily the components to fulfill those roles. As I mentioned before, some races–because of environment–actually promote “shortness” in their species. AND, for child bearing, you don’t want “slim”; you want robust (and yes, large breasts).

      So, its all socialization. Which means, its up to each of us as individuals to either confirm to it, or aspire to something different and more beneficial. As I also said before: this is NO DIFFERENT than basic racism; which has its roots in genetic behavior. We HAVE a genetic disposition to distrust/fear people who don’t look like ourselves. And if you feel comfortable using that argument to support shunning or basing other races, then by all means, continue with the “I need a tall man, or I need big breasts, or….whatever. Otherwise, open your minds.

      There is a genetic proposition to strive for the “alpha” person. And in our society, that is Tall, rich men; slim, large breasted and ‘smaller’ women. However, remember what else is “genetic” and see that its not always a good model to use, nor is it immutable.

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @ George

      George: “However, it is also natural for women to be attracted to men who show strong signs of being the protector (tall, masculine, strong features).”

      While it is true that women will naturally gravitate to the alpha male, it is the injection of “tall” into the list of attributes that is really just a media driven idealism (and one that is taken to an extreme by the height “restrictor.”)

      As mentioned before, part of the alpha quality may be that of physical size, but that does not automatically translate to “height.” Furthermore, the primal traits for pack leaders are more that of a combination of athleticism, guile and the ability to have others follow one’s lead. This is why women are consistently attracted to guys in positions of power (be it a millennia ago or today.)

      George: “But many would argue that this ‘attraction preference’ is somehow hard wired in our biolological attraction process.”

      They may argue that point, but there is no support for it. Again, the “natural instinct” excuse is just to deflect from the truth of “trophy hunting” to compensate for feelings of inadequacy.

      Consider firstly that it isn’t a “preference” when a height criterion is used as a filter. It is a “restriction.” There is rarely a restriction of “masculine” or “strong features” (two attributes that you mention in parallel with “height”) – this is further evidence of no support for a “biological” instinct (especially one that’s strong enough to cause such adamant exclusion.)

      One could argue that height is mentioned because it is a consistent and easily measured attribute (while “masculinity” and “strong features” are more subjective.) However, in that argument is more the demonstration that this height fixation is nothing more than trying to impress one’s peers as compensation for perceived failure. It is unlikely that 6 feet (or 2-3 inches above average) is the exact “biological” cut-off for “attractiveness” – yet what do we always see?

      So, it is not “preference”, it is a “restriction” (and one built on a media driven cut-off too.)

      Secondly, we aren’t really seeing an “attraction” process. No. The whole point of a height “restriction” is that of intolerance. Stating a height restriction is saying that any who fall under that value is automatically “unattractive”. There is no grey area. If you are under xx, you are unattractive. One may be “attracted” to Spartan apples, but be happy with a McIntosh, but if one would rather starve, then it is intolerance.

      So, it is not “attraction”, it is “intolerance.”

      None of this speaks of a biological hardwiring. Xenophobia has roots in fearing the unknown, but on its own it does not result in racial, ethnic or cultural intolerance (yes, many experiments have been done on this.) Racism stems from deliberate campaigns of propaganda and media driven reinforcement. Heightism (if that is a term) is no different.

      George: “This sounds dim for many other short males like myself, but research has also shown that while superficial physical attraction gets people in the door, it doesn’t keep them there. The other components of common interests, common education, values, etc. are what really keep people together. Getting in the door is really the hard part for us.”

      The whole point of a restriction is that regardless of how good your game is you cannot win a contest if you do not get to play. Online, getting “in the door” is remarkably harder than in the real world.

      If a height restrictor’s relationship with a “tall guy” fails, she will only consider a suitor that didn’t “measure up” before if she actually loses some of the insecurity in the first place. However, another bad romance is more likely to reinforce the height restrictor’s need to impress her peers (now she has another loss so the win has to be bigger), so she will hold out for a taller guy with more money, etc.

      On the Internet, you will see that it’s the same old strike-out princesses that keep complaining how all the taller guys are players or “emotionally unavailable” and that they wish they wouldn’t get hounded by all these unworthy short guys.

      In the real world, you (not you specifically, but any “you”) can have a chance. A lot of women are slave to the media, but to varying degrees (come on, there are a lot of people getting rich off the fashion and cosmetics industries.) They are also creatures of biological instinct, but “intolerance to less-than-average height” isn’t one of those instincts. That is purely a popular culture myth.

      “The need to feel protected sometimes comes from a lack of certain things. And there are women out there who could care less you are a bit shorter. There is no need to lie at all, just be yourself and someone who is worthy of you will appreciate you for you.”

      The need to feel protected is one of those “primal instincts.” This is why having all the visible trappings of economic success is very “attractive.” I agree, if you are a true alpha male, most women couldn’t care less if you were several inches under average – the big house, the fancy cars and bling are great negotiators.

      If I were to give advice to shorter men (and I am not saying any of them need my advice) it would be to do it the old-fashioned way: go out and approach women in the real world. The Internet sites, while well intended can become very toxic environments. Think about it. If a woman is reasonably attractive, she will have numerous opportunities just going about her daily life.

      Why would any woman have to resort to an online site? Some, after a couple of bad experiences with players, become steadily more jaded. Others are there purely to get attention and don’t care how they treat others. Sure, some may be genuine, but I’d offer them the same advice of stepping outside. Don’t feed this dysfunction. Go out, meet real people being real, and ride off into the sunset.

      • bruce says:

        RE: However, in that argument is more the demonstration that this height fixation is nothing more than trying to impress one’s peers as compensation for perceived failure.

        Interesting point. Much in the way that a divorced man might desperately seek out the “younger, prettier” potential mate as a way of making the former mate envious or jealous. I wonder if the “height” thing is more prevalent among older and second-timers.

  65. 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

    @ Bruce
    Bruce:
    Interesting point. Much in the way that a divorced man might desperately seek out the “younger, prettier” potential mate as a way of making the former mate envious or jealous. I wonder if the “height” thing is more prevalent among older and second-timers.

    2Short:
    The intent to sooth a damaged ego is absolutely the same in both cases.

    A divorced man targeting a nubile hottie is largely about demonstrating to his observers that he is the “winner” despite the loss of a significant relationship. That audience includes: himself; his ex-spouse; their circle of friends and anyone else that he perceives is judging him.

    There is a difference though.

    We would probably find that such a divorcee would be both cognizant and open to admit that he is doing exactly that. It’s similar to driving an expensive sports car. “Doing so, because you can” is the reason. Many a Porsche owner is fine with that. Often, having a twenty-something eye-candy as a girlfriend because you are basically paying for it is not a problem to the divorcee that can afford it.

    On the other hand, height restrictors are essentially in a constant state of denial. As noted, many resort to the inapplicable and easily adopted excuse of “it’s a natural instinct (so it’s not me.) We all know it’s a rationalization, but it’s all about them isn’t it? If the issued is pursued, this false sense of security quickly gives way to hostility. That’s when you get all the “but men like big bxxbs”, “but men don’t like high BMI”, “short guys are angry”, “My father was tall”, etc… false reasons.

    The state of denial is really very uncomforting territory.

    Height restrictors often mistake “restricting ones desires to only a trophy” to be the same as “I have the ability to actually have and maintain possession of this trophy over and above my peers.” Wanting only five star Hotel vacations isn’t the same as actually having the wherewithal to actually live it, is that not true? This part is particularly painful, and is a largely why a lot of the anger is vented against those that height restrictors feel are unworthy of anything but contempt (the shorter guys.)

    Does this happen more frequently amongst older and second timers?

    Older does mean a higher chance of having a bad relationship, or never having a relationship over a longer period of time, so compared to a younger group, it’s probably there. But against the backdrop of impressionable first-timers (the media driven “you must have this to be cool” sales pitch works on all those that “want to be better than their peers”) it may not be very noticeable.

    What is easily noticed though is that the older or second-timer height restrictors are far more caustic. Losing in the real world has given cause for a retreat to the online arena. There, they are quick to lash out at anyone who identifies their brand of intolerance. Perhaps this is why they require “protection”.

    But there are clues that a poor self-image, something that can intensify due to lengthier “losing streaks,” is the root of “height intolerance.”

    We notice this when certain women of visible minorities state that they “prefer” only candidates from the locally privileged majority (like “Caucasians only”.) We see it when “second timers” try to hide their insecurity fuelled prejudice with “I know what I want now, and that is men 6 ft and over.” We see it when the excuse is, “I dated a shorter guy once, and he was the second coming of Napoleon” (right… so the sample size of one is statistically sound…)

    If anything, the Internet dating experience has shown us the importance of physical presence in human interaction. This doesn’t mean that devout height intolerants will suddenly be open to guys below average height, but there’s a lot more candidates that need to be saved from potentially becoming another host of low self-esteem.

    • bruce says:

      RE: . What is easily noticed though is that the older or second-timer height restrictors are far more caustic.

      Basically this is what I was commenting on. I’ve been 5′ 4″ since High School. I never really had a problem ‘dating’. I even married someone who was 5′ 8″ . Its just the frequency and level of height obsession is vastly greater. Oh well. Personally, I’m a bigger person than I was when I was first married. (Figure if I am going to go through that pain, might as well make it pay off.)

  66. 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

    @Bruce

    Bruce:
    “Basically this is what I was commenting on. I’ve been 5′ 4″ since High School. I never really had a problem ‘dating’. I even married someone who was 5′ 8″ . Its just the frequency and level of height obsession is vastly greater. Oh well. Personally, I’m a bigger person than I was when I was first married. (Figure if I am going to go through that pain, might as well make it pay off.)”

    2Short4U:
    You bet. In the real world, all the other attributes any man can have (or have not) are far more apparent. As well, women with normal doses of self-esteem are not crowded out by lower self-esteem “haters” that we will find roosting online.

    The media influences are strong on the outside too, but women have their kryptonite. Charm works wonders when they are caught outside of a flock. I don’t have to teach you because you already practice the winning strategies.

    Online, haters will continue to be haters. All the loathing they have for “short guys” is really just projection of their own perceived inadequacy. It reminds me of a line from “American History X” as one character is questioning another about the effects of his racial intolerance: “Has anything you’ve done made your life better?” Indeed.

    The irony is that Internet Dating is supposed to be about finding “love.” Why do some think that this can be achieved by showing the world how much of a hater they can be?

  67. tallgirl says:

    I’m a 5’9″ woman, I carry myself with good posture and I wear heels, so I’m told on a regular basis how tall I am. What’s not being said here is the difficulty it is to date as a tall woman if you want a taller man. Yes, I want to be surrounded. I don’t want to lean down to kiss my man. I want to feel small next to my man. Yes, it’s one on a list of my dealbreakers. I know it’s my preference and I choose to wear heels (although we tall girls deserve the hot legs, boobs and butt that heels provide just as much as you shorter ladies…that’s another issue).

    Most importantly I need all you short girls to get out of my dating pool please. Nothing against you, but there are obviously plenty of shorter guys who need some lovin’. You probably don’t get that it makes you feel like less of a woman when a shorty tries to climb you like a tree. Please date them so they stop hitting on me.

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @tallgirl

      tallgirl:
      “I’m a 5’9″ woman, I carry myself with good posture and I wear heels, so I’m told on a regular basis how tall I am. What’s not being said here is the difficulty it is to date as a tall woman if you want a taller man.”

      2short4u:
      It’s not being said here mainly for these reasons:

      1. This blog is specifically about the isolation of “shorter guys” by women specifically in the online dating world. To bring up the plight of taller women is really just a hijack (just like the “what about more robust women” deflection.)
      2. Even if the challenges presented to taller women in the dating world were encompassed here, it is in no way as dire as that of shorter men. This has been illustrated in many ways already. It is rare to find men excluding taller women from candidacy, whereas it is easy to find online ads by women (tall or short) specifically stating “no one under xx need apply.”
      3. Taller women are neither regularly vilified by the opposing gender nor are the critics openly applauded by like-minded haters either (more on this in a moment.)

      In summary, both the frequency and magnitude of “shorter man intolerance” far exceeds that of “taller women intolerance” (if that is even anywhere near the problem that some profess it to be.)

      If you can demonstrate that there are even SOME online profiles from men that specifically state “no taller women” (or better yet, “no taller women because I like to wear flats and I slouch – just my preference”) then you may have a point. If not, it is just a deflection that seeks to downplay the significance of “shorter men” intolerance.

      If you feel strongly about the inequity for taller women, it does make sense to petition the blog-owner to open up an additional article on your issue so that all who wish to address that subject can go there.

      Tallgirl:
      “Yes, I want to be surrounded. I don’t want to lean down to kiss my man. I want to feel small next to my man.”

      2short4u:
      There’s nothing wrong with wanting to feel surrounded. However it is unlikely that as a woman of 5”9’ and of average build that most men can’t surround you with their arms. Torso size doesn’t vary as much as people imagine. A lot of the variation in height is in the legs. So much for that “excuse.” There may be exceptions (and we are not talking about 5’0” versus 6’9” extremes), but we are speaking in terms of the far larger proportion of cases.

      I don’t know about everybody else’s kissing positions, but we prefer the couch or the bed. Since the torso length of guys don’t vary that much, you wouldn’t notice the difference. You’d be kissing “on the level” with even a guy several inches shorter than you.

      The body mass of an averagely built 5’9” woman is still the body mass of a woman. It will be far less massive than the typical 5’6” guy. Testosterone tends to do that to human bodies. If you don’t “feel” small, that speaks more to the self-image issue that has been mentioned.

      Tallgirl:
      “Yes, it’s one on a list of my dealbreakers. I know it’s my preference and I choose to wear heels (although we tall girls deserve the hot legs, boobs and butt that heels provide just as much as you shorter ladies…that’s another issue).”

      2short4u:
      It’s pretty easy to establish that it is a deal-breaker for you. As such it is NOT a preference, but a restriction. Yes, it’s far less “appealing” when labelled as a restriction, but to call a restriction a preference is essentially a lie. On the contrary, adding a couple of inches on an online profile is really more an embellishment (oh, the irony.)

      Tallgirl:
      “Most importantly I need all you short girls to get out of my dating pool please. Nothing against you, but there are obviously plenty of shorter guys who need some lovin’. You probably don’t get that it makes you feel like less of a woman when a shorty tries to climb you like a tree. Please date them so they stop hitting on me.”

      2short4u:
      Here is where the disingenuousness of the commentary shows through.

      To state the “reasons” why one “restricts” oneself to men of certain height (and curiously that height is essentially the idealized 6 ft or above) is one thing.

      However, here we go with the “regular vilification” I was talking about.

      To use one’s story as a means to essentially tell shorter people to “date your own kind” (hmm… sounds very much like racism doesn’t it?) was wholly unnecessary. Furthermore, a derogatory term like “shorty” just had to be thrown in for good measure. Add to that the gross exaggeration of “climbing a tree” (what? Being even several inches taller one is suddenly at the size disparity of human-to-tree? A 5’9” person is not even 5% taller than some one 5’6” If he wears 1” heels and you are wearing 4”, it’s still not huge) is merely promoting stereotypes via lampoon.

      Thank you for illustrating how those who support the “vilify the shorter guy” campaign are really no different than any group of intolerants.

      All they do is present illogical (or wholly nonsensical) reasons and follow up with lightly veiled (or not veiled at all) bashing.

      Though not on topic, I actually have compassion for the plight of tall women too. Even the hot model-like ones can develop complexes due to isolation felt during those adolescent years. In any situations, we should stop promoting this projected “hate” and try to defeat the inner demons of the observer in more constructive ways.

      • tallgirl says:

        My intention is never to hate. Although I agree it’s a type discrimination, just as I would discriminate against someone who had a criminal record. Before you go on a tirade about how a criminal record is different than height because it’s chosen by actions…I’m just saying I discriminate for many reasons. Height is a physical one. I DON’T discriminate when it comes to race whatsoever, and I have a feeling a lot of posters here get all pissy about height yet they only date select races.

        It may not be as prevalent but I’m discriminated against by men for being tall, making my dating pool smaller even if I chose to date shorter guys. I also have super curly hair and there is an unspoken discrimination against us curlies. I know that’s unrelated, but I would not think a guy is a bad person for not wanting to date me because of something I was born with naturally. So I’m the bad guy for telling the truth about myself, huh?

        And yes, I would prefer if a 5’0″ girl would date one of the shorter guys so they would stop being bitter about this whole situation (which is sooooooooo obvious by this string). That would leave the few taller guys for us taller girls. Actually I’m being very genuine here if you can’t tell.

      • bruce says:

        RE: “Actually I’m being very genuine here if you can’t tell.”
        And dense…cause its been pointed out time and time again, that your “preference” is no different that dismissing (and yes, at least with the words you used–that is your expressed attitude) someone because of race. Personally, I don’t have a problem with people who are racists and would ONLY date someone of their ethnicity–leaves more for me and others who are not as shallow.

      • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

        @tallgirl:

        tallgirl:
        “My intention is never to hate. Although I agree it’s a type discrimination, just as I would discriminate against someone who had a criminal record. Before you go on a tirade about how a criminal record is different than height because it’s chosen by actions…I’m just saying I discriminate for many reasons. Height is a physical one. I DON’T discriminate when it comes to race whatsoever, and I have a feeling a lot of posters here get all pissy about height yet they only date select races.”

        2short4u:
        Speaking of criminal actions… Whether spawned from conscious intent, subconscious indifference or negligent behaviour, resultant actions can just as “incriminating”.

        The reasons that your prior post was noted as a promotion of intolerance were clearly stated in our first response. We’ll make it crystal clear:

        The pejorative term “shorty” was used as part of a supporting argument (which also resorted to a gross exaggeration of the situation) as to why you didn’t like a certain segment of men. The use of such a disparaging term can only be seen as an attempt to propagate the contempt for shorter men.

        It would be like saying one isn’t promoting derision of senior citizens and then proceeding to tell a couple of jokes about “old coots” and “wrinkly prunes.” (Sorry, that was for illustrative purposes only, senior citizens are cool) Actions are not always neutralized by subsequent declarations of intent. Most negligent drivers do not set out to run people over and you can’t use that excuse there either.

        Whether or not the opposing camp precludes certain ethnicities from their candidacy pools remains to be seen. There is likely no evidence of it on this blog. If you are suggesting there is such hypocrisy, feel free to support it with at least some shred of substantiation. Really. This is just the logical fallacy of “Tu Quoque.” (“you too”)

        Tallgirl:
        “It may not be as prevalent but I’m discriminated against by men for being tall, making my dating pool smaller even if I chose to date shorter guys. I also have super curly hair and there is an unspoken discrimination against us curlies. I know that’s unrelated, but I would not think a guy is a bad person for not wanting to date me because of something I was born with naturally. So I’m the bad guy for telling the truth about myself, huh?”

        2Short4u:
        That is just seeking to dismiss the very nature of height discrimination.

        There is nowhere near the magnitude of intolerance towards taller women (and really, at 5’9” you are not even remotely near the outlier group) when compared to intolerance to shorter men. You don’t see “no tall women”, yet you see many ads that clearly state, “no shorter men”. This has been plainly stated and is easily seen in most dating sites.

        Discrimination against “curlies” would be related if it was in the same order of magnitude, but it isn’t. To say it is “unspoken” is convenient, but I do not think you will find much support of it.

        “I’m the bad guy for telling the truth?” No. That would be a straw-man argument. No one should be saying you are a villain for speaking your mind. We have already stated why precluding men based on height is based on self-image issues of the observer. Is that bad? People can judge whether it is bad on their own.

        None of this makes anyone a “bad person” in general. “Bad” should be based on a number of personal choices and achievements. However, we should take pause and examine why we have these irrationalities.

        Tallgirl:
        “And yes, I would prefer if a 5’0″ girl would date one of the shorter guys so they would stop being bitter about this whole situation (which is sooooooooo obvious by this string). That would leave the few taller guys for us taller girls. Actually I’m being very genuine here if you can’t tell.”

        2Short4u:
        Bitter, yes. Consider the fact that a less-than-kind reception to your comment as well as my own supported editorial has caused you resort to a somewhat emotional response. What if the blog-master didn’t allow your response? Would you not be slightly incensed?

        Now, consider the fact that shorter men are not given a chance to “plead their case” to potential mates on a regular basis. Not only that, we have taken the time to show how your arguments hold no water. They are not even given the opportunity to provide such a defence. They are guilty without representation. Can you now understand how they can be bitter?

        Come on. The disingenuousness was in using your anecdote to introduce the belittling comments about shorter men. One can choose to be genuinely insincere in insinuating otherwise. Lol.

        All women should consider all men based on what they make of themselves (and not what they started with.) Vice-versa applies to. Neither 5’9” women nor 5’0” men should have to suffer discrimination.

        (@Everybody… easy on the hate… let’s slaughter the post and not the poster.)

    • Apollo says:

      Notice that her high heels define the men she chooses? Nothing else about the man matters as long as she can wear high heels in public with him? LOL!!! Equally funny is the fact that modern women like this one strive on a daily basis to be equal or better than men, yet hunger to feel small and surrounded by dating a taller guy? Sounds like a strange, sexual, “daddy complex” fetish to me.

      Instead of showing a bit of compassion, respect, or an ounce of humility towards the short guys who do approach her, she craps all over us by insinuating we’re tree climbing? WTF??? FYI tallgirl 5’9, I don’t climb “tall women” trees. I cut em down to my size and open up their eyes to the world of pleasures that I can give!!! Tall women like this poster are probably in need of a good pruning anyways. More dead weight that needs trimming, especially at the top branches. There is hope for her because the dead weight between her ears can be is easily fertalized with “brain food.”

      She disrespects short girls too by telling them to stay out of “her” dating pool?? I’m sorry tallgirl 5’9 but you aren’t that tall, AND YOUR SH!T STINKS TOO!! Just like everyone elses!!! I suggest you take your nose out of the air above and take a good whiff of what comes out of your arse if you haven’t done so in a long time. Your senses are blinded by Hollywood culture because the stench of this post is definitely coming from your innards. Tall, heightist, chicks with poor attitudes toward shorter people exhibit this kind of behaviour. You are no different from every other girl except for a few inches in height.

      You know something, your attitude proves one point that is consistent about taller women. The pickiest and most pretentious are usually in the slightly above average range, 5’6 to 5’9 which is closest to the short ladies who get all the tall guy attention. Women near 6’0 tall or more standing flat footed can be just as evil, but I generally find them a lot nicer. Their dating pool is considerably smaller if a man’s lack of height is a dealbreaker. Not all of them require a man to be taller and they don’t all wear high heels 24/7/12/365.

      • tallgirl says:

        Wow! You don’t know me (I’m awesome), my attitude (which is fantastic, btw) or how I treat people (very well). I was simply explaining my preference and experience. My shit stinks like everyone else’s. I’m not a snob.

        I’m not speaking for all women – just me. I’ve dated several shorter men and it doesn’t work for me, and sometimes they get intimidated and it’s actually their issue. I will agree that tall girls are not always a dealbreaker for short men, but it is sometimes.

        I’m actually jealous of shorter women for their expanded dating pool, just as they might be jealous of me for my seeing-over-peoples-heads-at-concerts ability.

        Funny how you thought my post was an attack on everyone and that you should go on a full blown attack against me.

      • tallgirl says:

        Correction: I’m speaking for me and my other tall girlfriends who all say the same thing.

    • Apollo says:

      Hey Tallgirl 5’9,

      When you come here and use the word “shorty” in reference to short guys, it’s just as harsh and mean as calling a fat man or fat woman “fatty.” When you come here and try to correlate your dating difficulties with shorter guys and render us as tree climbers for wanting to approach and date tall and taller women, you leave yourself wide open to criticism.

      How would you feel if you we’re called a giant beast? Big b!tch? Sasquatch? How about Giraffe girl? Maybe your skin is tougher than everyone elses here and you can laugh these off, but it’s not always easy for the rest of us. You perpetuate your own negativity and weakness by admitting you “feel like less of a woman when a shorty tries to climb you like a tree.” Don’t you have the ovarian strength to be a self-sufficient woman, not needing the height of a taller guy to feel feminine and pretty? I’ve got the balls to approach any woman who I find attractive and NEVER, EVER is her being shorter or taller make me less or more of a man.

      One would think that a tall woman like yourself would be complimentary, thankful and flattered that a shorter guy approaches you and finds you attractive. You seem to have no problems telling short girls to stay away from the taller guys. As if guys had any control over who they date, LOL!! You women do ALL the choosing. We men just choose who we approach unless you’re one of those tall, dark and handsomes that women boldy approach. Tall women who act like their farts belong in a can of Febreeze are the snotty bitches who have all kinds of guys approaching them. You get annoyed, frustrated and insultive when too many shorter guys approach you right? If you’re not a snot-faced c*nt, you wouldn’t be so concrete about NOT wanting short guys to approach you. That’s just arrogance to the extreme as far as I’m concerned.

      • tallgirl says:

        For the record I’m always happy to be approached as long as the approach is respectful. I have also been called an “amazon” or I get the “wow, you’re tall” in the more scared, less complimentary way. I don’t get offended. Most of the time I’m flattered. I actually like being tall…a lot. I just like to date guys that are taller than me.

        I apologize for using the word “shorty” if it hurt anyone’s feelings; it was meant to be more lighthearted than mean.

        Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to attack me right now and call names if I’m so wrong about everything I say. You shouldn’t care what I think if I’m a snobby ****.

        And yes, I’m very satisfied with my ovarian strength (that’s awesome…I’m totally using that) and feminity. I’m looking for a masculine man because I’m a feminine woman. Not everyone’s looking for the same thing. Some feminine women are looking for other feminine women. Go be mad at them for discriminating against you for being a man.

  68. Confused Ryu says:

    It just amazes me how if you under XX height you not considered a man. I may be 5’5″ but when I look in the mirror I see a man staring back at me. I’m always wondering how can I be less of a man that is 6 feet tall.

    I’ve had taller Girl friends, but I felt as though I wasn’t being respected. I don’t care if my woman is taller than me. All I want is for a woman to treat me like a man. My height doesn’t make me feel any less of a man. I walk with my head up proud when I approach any woman.

    What really gets me is when a woman says that her height restriction is “her problem”. They certainly don’t seem to feel bad for having their requirements. Most half decent looking women can get anyone they want. How are they suffering by having requirements. I’ve met too many women that act like being single is no big deal for them. Women just act like they have the world in the palm of their hand, and it doesn’t matter how we men feel.

    It can be tough dealing with the issue, because I have feelings dammit, and I want people to recognize that. We men can’t just suck it up. Having the whole world look down on you can make anyone’s self-esteem low. Just sucking it up can have disastrous results Women just don’t understand how much we hurt over this topic. Why should she care about our suffering when she can have relationship anytime she wants one?

    The only time women seem to suffer is when they already have that psychopath,abuser, or stalker. When I see situations like that I have hard time being sympathetic. In the back of my mind I sometimes end up saying “Serves you right!”. I do believe in karma. What goes around comes around.

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @Confused Ryu

      Confused Ryu:
      “It can be tough dealing with the issue, because I have feelings dammit, and I want people to recognize that. We men can’t just suck it up. Having the whole world look down on you can make anyone’s self-esteem low. Just sucking it up can have disastrous results Women just don’t understand how much we hurt over this topic. Why should she care about our suffering when she can have relationship anytime she wants one?”

      2Short4u:
      Well, take solace in that it’s not the whole world looking down on you (it just feels that way sometimes.) While it’s a whole lot better for taller guys in the eyes of women, there are still women that are actually mature (read that as in “sees the total package.”) Remember that the online population has a disproportionate number of women that have been out-competed in the real world.

      Don’t use dating site statistics as a measure of real life.

      It’s not that they don’t understand, it’s more that these women only see themselves: It’s all about them. In fact, they have to practice denial in order to justify it in their own minds (“It’s just a “preference”, it’s natural instinct, I like heels, etc.) If they realized that all their lack of success is really within their own personality, everyone (including shorter guys) would be so much happier.

      It may seem like a “buyers” market for women, but it’s like any marketplace, the perceived gems are highly competed for, and everything else is looked over. The smart buyer always gets there first (more on this in a moment.)

      Confused Ryu:
      “The only time women seem to suffer is when they already have that psychopath,abuser, or stalker. When I see situations like that I have hard time being sympathetic. In the back of my mind I sometimes end up saying ‘Serves you right!’. I do believe in karma. What goes around comes around.”

      Here’s where one has to decide whether to satisfy one’s ego (and gloat over the just desserts,) or remember what the goal was in the first place (get the babe.)

      Those are the best situations for some guy to swoop in and be the hero. The more she is suffering, the less the chance is she will be all that “picky” on who saves her. Save her from the Karma that she brought upon herself (if she is worthy of course.)

      Be the hero. Though, if that current guy really is a psychopath, do you really want him stalking the two of you? In that case, be the hero, change your name, go into witness protection and move to a new town. Lol.

  69. Confused Ryu says:

    I think it’s better to know that women suffer too. It’s good that women should suffer just like us. Too many women walk around thinking that the world revolves around them. They’d rather see us suffer than try to understand our plight. No matter what we offer most women it will never be good enough. We have to be beyond perfect in order to just get a chance at happiness.

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m not perfect. So why should we show them any kind of sympathy when none will ever be shown to us? I’m sick of being the clown that sits on that seat just waiting for some woman to hit that target so that I can fall into the water.

    Let them wallow in the mud right along with the rest of us. I’m sick of seeing men giving women a free pass because they are women. If they make a mistake let them suffer. I hope they’ll become a better person in the future for it. They already see us as worthless in every way a man can be. It just fills me with anger that women would rather be single then to give a short guy a chance. I’ll take any chance I can get to rub in their faces.

    • scooby16 says:

      You must be fearful…why? Because lest we forget, fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
      Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. C’mon Yoda probably had hot Yodettes drooling over his ear hair in his younger years, say…when he was a spry 350 yrs old. I think in this world we can substitute ‘Force” with confidence and I bet you it will work almost as well as crushing windpipes with the darkside…

  70. 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

    @ Confused Ryu

    Confused Ryu:
    “I think it’s better to know that women suffer too. It’s good that women should suffer just like us. Too many women walk around thinking that the world revolves around them. They’d rather see us suffer than try to understand our plight. No matter what we offer most women it will never be good enough. We have to be beyond perfect in order to just get a chance at happiness.”

    2Short4U:
    Even if one is the master of their own suffering due to their negligence or callous behaviour, we shouldn’t feel too positive that they are in that situation.

    Many women like to think that the world revolves around them, until a hotter babe walks in the room, and then they think they are invisible. Immature people wouldn’t rather “anything.” They just aren’t aware of anyone else’s feelings (you know, like how 2-year-olds behave.)

    You get a chance when they perceive you as worthy of getting a chance. Granted that may be near impossible in situations where they are in “impress the peers” mode (like at a club) unless you are a GQ model or have serious $’s. But outside of those elements the chances are better. Yes, it helps to be closer to the media-driven “ideal,” but it’s not quite “no chance at all.”

    If you’re much shorter than average then you’ll have to be closer to perfection in other areas. BUT, most of those areas are within your control. If you don’t bring your “A” game (and that includes a near bullet-proof ego even if it’s just the perception of a bullet-proof one), then the fault is your own. Some cases will still be impossible, but we aren’t talking about 100% success rate.

    You get a lot more chances than you think. Women (real ones on the outside, not the haters online: most of us don’t give much credit to what haters think) are judging you all the time on all sorts of things. They just don’t tell you that.

    Confused Ryu:
    “I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m not perfect. So why should we show them any kind of sympathy when none will ever be shown to us? I’m sick of being t he clown that sits on that seat just waiting for some woman to hit that target so that I can fall into the water.”

    2Short4U:
    You don’t have to be perfect: you only have to appear to be near perfection.

    I don’t know about others, but I’ll show all sorts of empathy (real or not, lol) if it means them showing me pxssy. All these haters online want you to sit in that carnival chair, but you don’t have to do as they wish. This feeling that you are a target is in how and when you approach the situation (remember, scenarios like a night club are about GQ models and Mr. $$$ getting laid, and nobody else.)

    Confused Ryu:
    “Let them wallow in the mud right along with the rest of us. I’m sick of seeing men giving women a free pass because they are women. If they make a mistake let them suffer. I hope they’ll become a better person in the future for it. They already see us as worthless in every way a man can be. It just fills me with anger that women would rather be single then to give a short guy a chance. I’ll take any chance I can get to rub in their faces.”

    2Short4U:
    Except for the leftovers that hang out on the Internet dating sites, I don’t think a lot of women wallow around in the mud for long. If you’re not willing to be the hero at the right place and the right time, some other guy will be. Women get that “free pass” because they are just so dxmn delicious. Who care’s if it is undeserved?

    It’s like really good real estate deals. Sure the owner screwed up and has to sell. Are you going to hold out making an offer because “he deserves to have to sell, and, he didn’t entertain your offer before?” If you don’t snatch it up, someone else will… then who is the loser?

    They do become a better person. Most do it through the company of the guy that saves them.

    If it is more important to rub any misery in their faces you’ll have to re-evaluate priorities. Don’t you think that getting jiggy with it is more important than poetic justice? Heck. Get the girl then decide whether you want to laugh at someone else’s self-inflicted suffering (If my guess is right, you’ll have all sorts of other r-rated priorities once the first part is taken care of.)

  71. tallgirl says:

    @bruce if all women only dated inside their race you’d actually have less people to date. You’re assuming that men are the only ones with a race preference. Boom.

    @2Short4u I can only address a few of these:

    I’m convinced you don’t think anyone should be discriminated against in the dating world. This is simply not possible. We can call it “discrimination” but we could also call it preferences, standards, requirements, likes vs. dislikes, what have you… These will not go away. Why? Evolution, my friend. I want to procreate with the smartest, tallest, most attractive guy I can find so my children have those qualities (given we have a great relationship of course). It seems to me that you have a big enough vocabulary you may inadvertantly “discriminate” against someone that has an IQ that is too low for your standards. (This is not an attack on you, but your typing skills are all I know about you.) It’s proven that all people prefer symmetrical faces. In that line, we are evolving to a taller species.

    I’ll once again apologize for using the word “shorty”. I honestly didn’t realize it would cause this much of a fuss or how sensitive the subject is. That part of my post was more of a joke. Now is it “disparaging” or “propagate contempt”? We may be pushing it a little there but again I have removed it from my vocabulary as it’s now a slur. Can I still use it in “shawty what your name is” or “shawty what you drank”? ;)

    I’m sticking with my race comparison. I like it.

    Now for the fun part: curly hair “discrimination”. I could go on for hours about this, because I have a lot of firsthand experience in this arena. Take any plain-Jane-to-hottie story in the media and the majority of the time, the woman began with curly hair and ended with straight hair. A great example of this is Princess Diaries. I love my hair. There is a small segment of men that absolutely LOVES my hair. But almost every other woman I know straightens her curls to be more socially acceptable and more “attractive”. I guarantee every woman you know has a straightening iron for this reason. I get hit on a whole lot more when my hair is straight. But since I love my curly hair (and the natural me) so much I choose to wear it naturally and find a guy who likes me for me. What I’m saying is, there is a discrimination against women with curly hair, but I choose to embrace myself and date those who are attracted to me. Guys, you should do the same. Embrace your short, badass selves and if a girl like me doesn’t want to date you, then screw her!

    The one thing I am certain of is that I am genuine. Yep. I’m at least talking about myself and my experiences in an honest way. I’m not attacking anyone else, except for the aforementioned perceived slur/attack/joke.

    • bruce says:

      RE: @bruce if all women only dated inside their race you’d actually have less people to date. You’re assuming that men are the only ones with a race preference. Boom.

      ??? Not sure what you are trying to say…but, most people DO date only others in the base ethnic group. Its racists…no matter how you want to justify it. Is that evolutionary? Actually yes, and as I stated before, so is racism in general. However, we as a society have determined that though there are genetic dispositions towards racists tendencies, its in our best interests to work against it.

      “These will not go away. Why? Evolution, my friend. I want to procreate with the smartest, tallest, most attractive guy I can find so my children have those qualities (given we have a great relationship of course)””

      Again, “tall” is NOT an evolutionary-based preference. Its a socialized standard for the “alpha-male” which IS the evolution-based preference; as is what you call “attractive”. What YOU find attractive is based primarily on your exposure and acceptance of media standards.

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @Tallgirl

      Tallgirl:
      “I’m convinced you don’t think anyone should be discriminated against in the dating world. This is simply not possible. We can call it “discrimination” but we could also call it preferences, standards, requirements, likes vs. dislikes, what have you…”

      2short4u:
      That’s the “perfect solution” fallacy.

      Certainly one cannot expect an absolutely unbiased selection process, but the ideals are something we should continually strive for. That is part of positive social evolution. Really. If we constantly retreated to status quo many equalities we take for granted today would not exist (even the right for women to vote is a recent parity in the current age of empires and is still vehemently opposed in lesser evolved societies.)

      So, that is really just relying on the “perfect solution” fallacy (as in “if perfection cannot be achieved, then lets just go with the flow”.)

      When discriminatory practices develop to the point of exclusion, and if that exclusion is directly due to an involuntary, immutable and largely inconsequential attribute, it should not be softened with terms like “preference” or “likes and dislikes.” They are prejudice (as harsh as that sounds.)

      Tallgirl:
      “These will not go away. Why? Evolution, my friend. I want to procreate with the smartest, tallest, most attractive guy I can find so my children have those qualities (given we have a great relationship of course).”

      2short4u:
      That “height” is part of the innate mate selection process has already been shown to be a convenient misinterpretation of procreative attraction. Even if height was an affinity (and on it’s own it isn’t,) this does not rationally translate to a cut-off (which is always conveniently “below average height.”)

      Women will most certainly desire the alpha males. These are always the “leaders” of the pack. As has been explained before, that would be the guy with all the bling and the ability to keep that bling coming. The number one attraction for women has been and is still that: Money talks, bullshi-at walks.

      “Smarts” has an attractive quality as long as it is accompanied by ambition since that will translate to (you guessed it) money.

      “Tall” is another one of those media driven fantasies that women think are truths. It’s much like “men love big bxxbs” mythology. Men like good-looking bxxbs. They don’t have to be big. Hollywood “built up” that myth.

      Tallgirl:
      “It seems to me that you have a big enough vocabulary you may inadvertantly ‘discriminate’ against someone that has an IQ that is too low for your standards. (This is not an attack on you, but your typing skills are all I know about you.) It’s proven that all people prefer symmetrical faces. In that line, we are evolving to a taller species.”

      2short4u:
      As the perception of the breadth of one’s lexicon is that of the audience, my discriminatory role would be a passive one. I am applying NO restriction, but rather leaving it up to the efforts of the spectator to determine their own worthiness.

      Even then, the minimum threshold of IQ has not been surrendered. How one comprehends what I write, is still not a determination of whether they pass or not. No shorter man is afforded that voluntary competition when facing an explicit minimum height restriction.

      There is a formulation on idealized eye-spacing etc. Women always demand a photo as a requirement for responding online. I don’t see a problem with that, since it helps to know if the guy asking isn’t currently doing 10-15 for manslaughter, or that he thinks that grooming is only something that sissies do.

      The variation in height over the past millennia is largely due to diet. Propensity towards taller males has little to do with it (well really, nothing to do with it). This proves differences in average height between ethnic groups too. Take any ethnic group, give then several generations of nutrient rich North American diet and they will all be super-sized.

      Tallgirl:
      “I’ll once again apologize for using the word “shorty”. I honestly didn’t realize it would cause this much of a fuss or how sensitive the subject is. That part of my post was more of a joke. Now is it “disparaging” or “propagate contempt”? We may be pushing it a little there but again I have removed it from my vocabulary as it’s now a slur. Can I still use it in “shawty what your name is” or “shawty what you drank”? ;)”

      2short4u:
      Anything can be innocuous or offensive. It’s all in the context.

      You and I may not think it’s a big deal, but to these guys that have apparently been running head first into these barriers really take offence to it. I’m sure the “N” word will earn me a beating or worse if I used it in certain situations (well, probably most situations as it is rarely an accolade.)

      You don’t really need to apologize, as you may not actually have been aware of what you may have been doing.

      If anyone here has over-reacted, they should man-up and offer an apology. Some of the responses were fuelled by a lot of pent-up frustration, but that is not mitigation for being excessively abusive to others. The whole point of demonstrating against prejudice is to show that misplaced derision is wrong. Acting the part only provides support for that typical false accusation about “angry Napoleon complex.”

      Tallgirl:
      “I’m sticking with my race comparison. I like it.”

      2short4u:
      Sure, but you still have to provide some evidence of it.

      Tallgirl:
      “Now for the fun part: curly hair ‘discrimination’. I could go on for hours about this, because I have a lot of firsthand experience in this arena. Take any plain-Jane-to-hottie story in the media and the majority of the time, the woman began with curly hair and ended with straight hair. A great example of this is Princess Diaries. I love my hair. There is a small segment of men that absolutely LOVES my hair. But almost every other woman I know straightens her curls to be more socially acceptable and more “attractive”. I guarantee every woman you know has a straightening iron for this reason. I get hit on a whole lot more when my hair is straight. But since I love my curly hair (and the natural me) so much I choose to wear it naturally and find a guy who likes me for me. What I’m saying is, there is a discrimination against women with curly hair, but I choose to embrace myself and date those who are attracted to me.”

      2short4u:
      Princess Diaries; the unibrow! Lol. An enlightening bit of information. I did some research and although this isn’t a completely scientific test, there is support for what you are saying. This shows that there is an affinity to straight hair as far as attraction to women (I’m guilty of aiding and abetting a hijack now):

      http://www.divinecaroline.com/24138/41884-curly-vs-straight-which-do

      The subject still gets a lot of response even with curly hair (she is, after all an attractive specimen) but there is a difference. I’ll have to do some more real life research (my fun part.)

      Tallgirl:
      “Guys, you should do the same. Embrace your short, badass selves and if a girl like me doesn’t want to date you, then screw her!”

      2short4u:
      On this we have complete agreement. Focus on the badazz. Lose the “angry man” ‘tude. It doesn’t matter how or why you are angry, it will never earn you any points (especially with the ladies.) Be a real man (so “cool” that nothing gets you “hot”.) It works in the real world most of the time.

      Tallgirl:
      “The one thing I am certain of is that I am genuine. Yep. I’m at least talking about myself and my experiences in an honest way. I’m not attacking anyone else, except for the aforementioned perceived slur/attack/joke.”

      2short4u:
      Lol. I apologize if I gave you a hard time about that. I was just messing with you to get you a little sweaty. (The bad boy comes out sometimes.) No harm intended.

      • Jessica says:

        Hello tall girls & short men. I’m
        Jess & I’ve posted before & I wanted to respond to the previous comments.
        1. Tall girls/ women are unhappy. Why? It’s because it’s hard to be different. It’s hard to be made fun of. Men generally like shorter women, which does cut down our dating pool. Being tall & female is hard!
        2. Tall women post on here because if you “google” tall women or trouble dating because of your height or “similar” stuff it comes up, we’re not raining on the parade. If you go to sights like tallwomen.org other tall women get mad if you are negative (& truthful) about how hard it is dating when you are tall. Although it is an issue.
        3. If it seems like less of an issue it’s necause we are more rare, so it is like a cancer that doesn’t get paid attention to! We are rare & therefore the problem is ignored.
        4. The problem is growing YES due to media. Short & heavy is being portrayed as the ideal for women. Yes models are tall & thin but not ideal to men, & a tall curvy woman hasn’t been “seen” since Anna Nicole, other than Khole K. who mainly gets cruel media attention. I also feel the rise in homosexuality & acceptance ( lol I love gay people so I’m not saying its all bad) has hurt tall women because the backlash assumes we are transvestites? This makes no sense to me since my best friend from HS was a 5’2 latino transvestite who my by the way resembled Kim. K? Lol
        5. Of course short men are men! I think the point is tall women are women! There are lots of guys who say they are short but love tall women mmmmm? Out of desperation? We don’t love being sloppy seconds because short girls won’t accept you?
        6. I’m 5’11, I weigh from 150 to 165, when I’m fat. I have curves, lots of curves! I’m not fat though. I have very long & slender legs. I’m larger up top. No big tummy, lol nice & flat. I have wider hips. I’m very fair skinned with a tint but of freckles. My hair blonde when I was young, dyed dark now. It is as straight as it comes & to my lower back. My eyes are blue & my lips are full. I feel a look womanly, not perfect, maybe not tiny but womanly. I modeled extensively when I was 11- 17, then 5’11 & 110 lbs. like a skeleton. I’m boring you because I can tell you either way skeletal or curvier, blonde or brunette no guys/ men have ever wanted me.
        7. As for the “climb the tree” thing I have heard it & no tall women wants to hear it. It wasn’t “tall girl” making it up it’s a derogatory comment made on occasion to tall females & we hate it! I am not a tree, a “big game hunt” or an amozon. I’m a girl well now a woman who wishes every day a wad short!!!!

      • Jessica says:

        Sorry for my spelling errors English correctors, cell phones do their own thing??? Oh & a side point I was in Las Vegas this weekend & was sooooo happy to see another tall lady for the first time in my life ( lots of them….) some were with nice tall
        men without pedophilia!! The prettiest one was only 5’8 or so & her man was 5’0 ( yes I asked loll)! He looked happy enough lol ! Good luck to you all! I’m at peace by the way, I’m happy by myself. My daughter will buy me diamonds & take care of me ( she tells me).

    • jpsmoot says:

      “In that line, we are evolving to a taller species.”

      Yes and no. Regardless of what the average height is, there will always be shorter people because “short” is determined relative to the average. Women would just end up complaining about how they can’t find any men over 6’4″.

  72. Joseph says:

    Hey short guys, don’t sweat women like tallgirl. In 10 years+ her looks will rapidly deteriorate so no man, short or tall, will want her anyways. Her Darwinist outlook on relationships will bite her back in the ass when her tall “dream man” ultimately trades her in for a younger fitter model. The only downside is we’ll then have to hear the inevitable b*tching and moaning on The View from these future dried up hags about how men are “shallow pigs” yet can’t see past their own glaring hypocrisy. Women spoil like milk, men age like fine wine. Cougars are a myth, most of the ones I see in real life are struggling to keep their sagging wrinkly bodies from spilling through their skin tight dresses.

    My advice to any man is to work hard, make lots of money, stay in good shape, build social capital and close friendships, and focus on the things that make you happy. Women who make such a huge fuss about height are not worth dating anyways, good for a pump and dump and nothing more. Is it any wonder they are on dating sites to begin with? If they were truly relationship material, surely someone in her social circle, work, school would have snagged her off the market by now.

    And don’t let anyone, male or female, dog you about your height. Always have a stinging comeback ready, preferably by pointing out one of their physical flaws. If some woman gives you crap about your height, scan her body, and tell her “yeah, on second thought, you could stand to lose a few pounds yourself” and walk off. Harsh? Well people ought to be able to take shallow judgement from others if they are willing to dish it out themselves.

    Btw, I am 5’11” but I do empathize with shorter guys. My dad is 5’6″ but he never took sh*t from anyone including my mom who’s taller than him. If people thought he had a Napoleon complex, he gladly embraced it. Better to be feared and respected as the Emperor of France than laughed and mocked as the court jestor.

  73. Confused Ryu says:

    Today I was over my friend’s house. We decided to go out to lunch. My friend and the other guy that owns the house went with us. We were out at a common place that they always eat at. Both of them are noticeably taller than I am. Both of my friends are at 6″. My one friend is 6’2″ The waitress didn’t even see me at first when she asked how many were sitting at the table. I got on her for that.

    Later we sat there and they were chatting with the waitresses that were there. I tried to include myself in the conversation, but I felt like I was being ignored, and overlooked at first.

    I’ve just noticed as being a shorter male(5’5″), it is harder to interact with people (women in general) when they seem to have less respect for you. It seems to me that people of normal/above normal height seem to expect less from short people (males specifically). The only time people really pay attention to us when we shout at the top of our lungs or have a severe attitude. I would prefer if I didn’t have to do either.

    I just wish I didn’t feel so dismissed when I try to talk to people. My height may lack presence, but my personality doesn’t. Tall people in general don’t have this problem. Why can’t people make good assumptions about us short guys? Just thought I’d share today’s experience.

    • Jessica says:

      So your mom was taller? Yet your comments to “tall girl” & women in general are cruel? Mmmm? Was she mean to you? What’s your issue? You are an average male. So…. Lol jw?

      • Confused Ryu says:

        If that was the case I would be getting the attractive women. NOT the left overs that NOBODY else wants. I don’t deserve left overs. I’m athletic,intelligent and I want the same in my partner. It’s almost laughable for me to want to be with some couch potato when I’m out running marathons. I know the obesity epidemic is getting out of control, but just because everyone wants to be fat and lazy doesn’t mean I want to be with them.

        Jessica I would hit on you so fast you’re head would spin. I’ve hit on women quite a bit taller than myself, and since you say your model pretty I wouldn’t overlook you. Promise! If I’m a normal male like you say then you wouldn’t have a problem if someone like me approached you?

        To answer your last question, I’m just sick of women treating guys like garbage just because they have plenty of options. I don’t like being seen as instantly unattractive by women even though I’m in better shape then 99% of the population. How the hell does that happen? Just because I’m short doesn’t mean automatically mean I’m out of shape. I mean my 6’2″ friend can even run half a mile, and yet in women’s eyes he his the healthier more attractive male O_o ! Someone please tell me how fucked up that is?

    • volonte says:

      Well that sucks and I want to say that you were right about taller people having presence. I do not think about it at all and just assume that when I walk into a room that I can (and do hold myself up high) and expect a certain amount of respect, but not because of my 6 ft 3 body frame but because of how I was raised by my parents- especially my mother who stands at 5 ft 2. Go figure that one out.

      In my circle of friends, everyone is 6’2 -6ft ‘4 range except one of us who is around 5 ‘7. HE is a an actor and film maker who is attractive, and charismatic. He has zero problem getting women/girls of all heights tall or average and these ladies are 8+ ‘s normally.

      He knows how to dress sharp, he works out, does martial arts and is intelligent and witty. In other words he’s confident and never mentions that the three other guys he’s hanging with tower over him. We never tease him and he never mentions how tall we are compared to him either.

      We are all a fun group of “good” guys and I would go far as to say fairly good looking , but it is the charm and spontaneous nature of the energy that we CREATE that get’s the ladies to want to be around us at social events or bars etc. I do not think it is the height factor (but I could wrong).

      Any way in my friends case, he just stays himself and owns his presence and fits in his skin. The height thing comes into play with him and I think shorter guys should try to find the thing that makes them content and confident about their personality and allow that to be the focus, not their shortcomings in the height department. There is not much they can do to change that so livin up the aspect of the things can control to counter balance the whole thing.

      Best of luck!!

  74. 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

    @Jessica

    Jessica:
    “Hello tall girls & short men. I’m Jess & I’ve posted before & I wanted to respond to the previous comments.
    1. Tall girls/ women are unhappy. Why? It’s because it’s hard to be different. It’s hard to be made fun of. Men generally like shorter women, which does cut down our dating pool. Being tall & female is hard!
    2. Tall women post on here because if you “google” tall women or trouble dating because of your height or “similar” stuff it comes up, we’re not raining on the parade. If you go to sights like tallwomen.org other tall women get mad if you are negative (& truthful) about how hard it is dating when you are tall. Although it is an issue.”

    2Short4u:
    No. The CONTEXT (that magic word), as in “how Tallgirl’s introduction of the prejudice against taller women only seeks to hide the disparate issues” was crucial to the criticism. That other inequities exist does not speak to the far greater relative significance of the topic here (it only seeks to hide it.)

    As was mentioned to her, while what you say is happening, it does not happen in anywhere near the frequency or magnitude that it happens for shorter men. To continually mention other examples of prejudice only tries to ignore how the online “no shorter than xx men” restriction is unparalleled. The ethnic restriction may be close, but it doesn’t get as much visible applause from like-minded intolerants that the “no shorter men” preclusion does.

    If the existence of other intolerant behaviour, much less the intersection with online search engine results, were to be used as mitigation, we could flood all specific discussion with any number of social injustices. That would make a pretty good campaign of obfuscation would it not?

    (Yes, we entertained the “curly vs. straight”. But that was to demonstrate that we were neither unaware nor insensitive to other social tort.)

    Jessica:
    “3. If it seems like less of an issue it’s necause we are more rare, so it is like a cancer that doesn’t get paid attention to! We are rare & therefore the problem is ignored.”

    2Short4u:
    No. Even given a similar segregation (say the 95th percentile,) a much taller-than-average woman is no less a rarity than that of a much shorter-than-average man. However, the challenge to find a similar frequency of ads that clearly state, “must be under 5-8” in men’s ads in comparison to “must be over 5-10” in women’s ads goes curiously unmet. (Try even finding one.)

    Again, see the first section of this response for why the problem is “ignored” here.

    Jessica:
    “4. The problem is growing YES due to media. Short & heavy is being portrayed as the ideal for women. Yes models are tall & thin but not ideal to men, & a tall curvy woman hasn’t been “seen” since Anna Nicole, other than Khole K. who mainly gets cruel media attention.”

    2Short4u:
    Right… all those fashion models are so rarely asked on dates because of their 5-11 status. Please. They may develop complexes due to negative experiences during their early years, but it is doubtful that their dance card is anywhere near as hard to fill as the shorter guys you are hearing about here.

    It’s not about being “ideal” for shorter men it’s about being completely denied the access to competition. That should be obvious.

    Anna Nicole, R.I.P., did not get a lot of unconstructive media attention because of her height; she got it as a result of a lot of personal choices. The comparison one is trying to draw is completely inapplicable.

    Jessica:
    “I also feel the rise in homosexuality & acceptance ( lol I love gay people so I’m not saying its all bad) has hurt tall women because the backlash assumes we are transvestites? This makes no sense to me since my best friend from HS was a 5’2 latino transvestite who my by the way resembled Kim. K? Lol”

    2Short4u:
    The relative desire for same-gender relationship hasn’t really changed, only the public perception and acceptance of has.

    Must be a transvestite? A taller woman is a taller woman. People assuming “that a taller woman must actually be a man” are jumping to conclusions. That’s a good illustration on how ridiculous small-minded people can be.

    Jessica:
    “5. Of course short men are men! I think the point is tall women are women! There are lots of guys who say they are short but love tall women mmmmm? Out of desperation? We don’t love being sloppy seconds because short girls won’t accept you?”

    2Short4u:
    In there lurks a bit of a straw man argument.

    Shorter men love women, period. Some might like other men or transvestites but I haven’t seen any men or transvestite ads saying “no shorter men”. If one is feeling that they are “second choice” of shorter men, the plaintiffs here certainly do not demonstrate it. Do you have some evidence to support your claims?

    Jessica:
    “6. I’m 5’11, I weigh from 150 to 165, when I’m fat. I have curves, lots of curves! I’m not fat though. I have very long & slender legs. I’m larger up top. No big tummy, lol nice & flat. I have wider hips. I’m very fair skinned with a tint but of freckles. My hair blonde when I was young, dyed dark now. It is as straight as it comes & to my lower back. My eyes are blue & my lips are full. I feel a look womanly, not perfect, maybe not tiny but womanly. I modeled extensively when I was 11- 17, then 5’11 & 110 lbs. like a skeleton. I’m boring you because I can tell you either way skeletal or curvier, blonde or brunette no guys/ men have ever wanted me.”

    2Short4u:
    Sounds like a pretty good package to me. I would believe you about “no guys/men have ever wanted me” except for the fact that you did subsequently say:

    “My daughter will buy me diamonds & take care of me ( she tells me)”.

    So unless you decided to go to the local sperm bank, pulled a Branjolina, or that there is now a second case of Immaculate Conception, some guy did want you enough to create a child with you.

    Jessica:
    “7. As for the ‘climb the tree’ thing I have heard it & no tall women wants to hear it. It wasn’t “tall girl” making it up it’s a derogatory comment made on occasion to tall females & we hate it! I am not a tree, a “big game hunt” or an amozon. I’m a girl well now a woman who wishes every day a wad short!!!!”

    2Short4u:
    Yes. Those comments are not constructive to any party concerned.

    That “big game hunt” quip is absolutely rude. Be rest assured that I would not tolerate that if I heard it. I always thought “Amazon” was a compliment, but I am thinking of it in a “warrior woman scantily clad in leopard skin” kind of way. If the context were meant to be an insult, they would be hearing from me about it too.

    Personally, I don’t wish you to be any taller or shorter than you are. Be the best that you can be with what you were given. That’s a “tall” order that fulfillment of is not “short” of effort, but I am a pretty demanding s.o.b. (Yes, an alpha male trait.)

    • Mario says:

      Good points 2Short4U, nicely done!

      Your analysis and breakdown of the responses here is quite interesting.

      I have learned over the years not to put too much weight into the stuff that some tall girls say, especially coming from the likes of Ila, Irena and Jessica here. They don’t speak for ALL women taller than 5’9 so I never sweat this stuff. They can’t speak for them anyway and I’m so glad they don’t! In fact, taller women who date shorter guys are some of the most beautiful PEOPLE inside and out. They are very deep in character, courteous and appreciative of ALL attention men give to them. They also have the intelligence not to give a failing grade to a guy just because he stands X amount of inches shorter than she is. The good ones will see through to his character and into his heart. Don’t fool yourselves guys, smart women of any size know that a man with a kind, caring, trustworthy heart is the only BEAT that’s worth ticking to. I briefly dated a tall 5’10 girl who broke up with me for an even shorter guy because her heart was more with him. I respect her that much more for telling me the truth and for being sincere about her feelings. No bad breakups or enemies made. Her boyfriend who I met, was a quality good-looking guy at 5’3. That’s right, she’s was 5’10 he was 5’3 and I’m 5’6? We still talk and exchange pleasantries if and when we see each other. Can’t say I’m not a tad jealous but in a good way though. Lucky bastard!!!

      Tall women like the ones posting here against shorter guys have nothing positive or redeeming to contribute to this discussion. All they do is come here with hurtful thoughts and spill them on this forum trying desperately to correlate their associated “tall woman” difficulties against the plight of shorter guys. They don’t even remotely compare. These women directly and indirectly discriminate against shorter people on a daily basis and they see no problem doing so until someone calls them out and brings to light their bad behaviour. That’s when she reacts harshly and brandishes those who had the audacity to question her. “Napoleon complex,” “short-man-syndrome,” or “angry little man disease” are her strongest words of defense when she feels threatened by a shorter guy. She behaves like this to shorter women too. Tall women use these negative reinforcements as their own worthwhile excuses against dating shorter men or having any association with shorter people whatsoever. They’re the ones who say “men don’t like tall girls, men are scared of us, men don’t approach us, men prefer short little hoes.” It goes on and on and on and on. They focus all their attention on the tall guys they choose to compete with the same shorter girls for. When the tall object of her affection rejects her and runs off with the girl who’s a foot shorter than he is, all the other guys in the room are rendered useless because they don’t measure up to her height standards. Including short and shorter guys as part of the worthy male population is a serious anomaly to her, so in essence this narrow minded pattern of thinking continues to resonate. Very loudly I might say in todays dating world. What happens when a shorter guy approaches the taller girl? She craps on him in many different ways. The ladies who try to be the nicest in their rejections most of the time will compliment a shorter guy for approaching her but LIE and say they are involved with someone to keep him away. Even though it’s the easiest excuse, it doesn’t bother me. The joke is definitely not on me when I see the same tall girl leaving by herself at the end of the night or she’s sitting by herself at a table because she can’t muster up the confidence to dance with the shorter guys and shorter girls. She’s too scared that she’ll look oafish, awkward and clumsy in her big shoes. On the other hand, tall girl could easily make herself look like the star attraction with the grace and long legged elegance that for the most part has all the guys in the room standing in awe and tripping over themselves just to get a good look at her. If she’s a fun person with no attitude, she’ll get up and hit the dance floor with all the short guys. She’ll lap up all the attention like a dog with its favourite dish and give some love back to the guys dancing around her. I’ve seen it happen at weddings, parties, concerts and all kinds of other social events where music gets people on the floor. I love it when a tall chick totally devoid of attitude takes her heels off and lets herself go on the dance floor in bare feet. Even if she’s the tallest girl on the dance floor, it’s amazing when they do get up and dance. I will be the first to admit that I get the sweats and the shivers when a see a tall, beautiful, leggy woman who exudes this kind of confidence and sex appeal. They are fantastically amazing women just like short women the same. Only tall women have that special presence because they are so rare. Thats why many short guys appreciate you. On the other hand, tall princesses with poor attitudes will tell you straight up, “sorry honey you’re too short me,” or they’ll throw the sarcasm at you by saying “I’m sorry, you must think I like or date shorter guys.” or “I’m sorry, you must think I date teenaged boys.” In the rarest cases when a woman like this just might feel slightly bad, knowing how much of a bitch she just presented herself, she might try and save face after the fact by saying”you’re a really cute guy and I’m sure there’s someone for you, just not me honey.” The evil ones will just tell you to “f-off, don’t waste my time, don’t bother me and/or go date someone your own size.”

      Short guys, do yourself a favour. DON’T let these women get you down. Pick yourself up and move on to the next woman with confidence. Don’t waste time on ladies who are fixated on tall guys. Height is her issue and she probably comes with more bad luggage that you wouldn’t want to deal with anyways. Everone has baggage but some people have more bad luggage carrying around with them LOL! Yeah, some tall guys can stand in a room with one finger in his nose and the other in his arse and women will flock to him in droves for a date. Short guys on the other hand, stand out by not being assholes or complaining about chicks with attitude. Don’t give them the attention. Don’t give them any credit. Make sure your body is in decent shape. Nobody says you need to prepare for an iron man tournament or a Mr. Universe contest, but looking and feeling fit exudes confidence. It also gives others around you the impression that health and fitness are important to you which they should be in the first place. Women like men who are fit that’s for sure.

      • Jessica says:

        Oh & Mario I’ve never said a mean thing on here about short men. I have also never worn ( a few times while on the actual runway 15 years ago, but that was my job) or even owned a pair of heels. I don’t dance because yes your right it feels terrible to look big. Most tall girls never learn how to dance. We’re not mean we’re shy.

    • Jessica says:

      Height requirements-most guys on dating sights ( I do not go on but have looked at my friends) do have a limit set at their own height or shorter. You are wrong. They would however date midgets. They say any height up to x (which is usually their height
      http://www.bellagio.com/spasalon/spa.aspx
      The Bellagio Las Vegas Spa is an award-winning beauty oasis focused on pampering you. … You may also make room reservations by calling 888.987. 6667. Restaurants …or shorter). Taller men usually cap off at 5’10 or 5’11.
      It’s a fact that short men & taller women get less responses online.
      So I’m saying the problem is similar in other places.. Where I live most men are short.
      Many models have or had problems dating, maybe not the extreme famous supermodels. Although some of them
      are with men who are old, unattractive & yes at times short. So maybe Giselle did ok but it’s a rarity.
      Many models I’ve known feel very down
      about their heights/ appearances.
      I mentioned Anna Nicole because you never see a tall & curvy woman (she was the only one I could think of). My point being that’s not an idealized form of beauty. The only other woman I could think of was Khole K who has recorded media hatred for her appearance/size. I think she’s quite pretty, but I’m a woman.
      Shorter men do not line up to date me, I’m not prejudiced against people. I’m shy & rarely go out other than for work & family because I hate negative attention. Thank you for agreeing that ride counts are rude. Oh & amazon is not a compliment to an ozon. I have thought of getting it tattooed on my ankle lol. What do you think?
      Oh & yes , I’ve been alone my whole life other than my daughter. She is mine. There are indeed lots of ways to have a child without a relationship.

    • Ila says:

      Do you have any idea how bad it makes a woman feel to be called a transvestite? You men get mad that we need a bigger man? Well I’ve been so lonely and down on myself that I’ve tried to pretend to be one. Most of my prior comments have been rather tongue in cheek, but seriously think about bring a woman and having men think you are a transvestite, you pretend to be one and they know you are a woman. You think maybe I’m a lesbian and find out unless you are butch women want a short female plus they don’t get “lesbian vibes” from you. I feel for short guys here who are struggling! Imagine though you are the one who should have it easy and you are repellent. I agree with Jess can’t a short man be a transvestite? I’ve seen them and indeed they can! So let’s have men start going up to short females and asking them of they are little men. Some of them could pass for it?

      • Some Dude says:

        What you said reflects your transphobia. I know a tall woman who loves to hang out with transvestites, and she is neither lesbian nor a transvestite. She is not bothered about being seen as a transvestite. And men love her, both the men who think of her as a transvestite because she sometimes hangs out with them and the men who think of her as a hot woman.

        Do you know why? She loves herself, just the way she is, and more importantly she has a kind heart and an open mind. She does not judge men who dress up in women’s clothes and she does not judge men who are shorter than her. She’s married to a man who is a couple of inches shorter than her. She is truly happy, exactly the way she is.

        When she had a baby, I saw her all disshelved with her baby in her arms, and her husband told her, “you look gorgeous”. Actually, I realized that she did look gorgeous, even though disshelved, because she was enjoying being a mom and she did not care what she looked like. That’s confidence in herself without judgment of herself and of others. I’m looking for a woman like her!

      • Ila says:

        ??? I also hang out mostly with gay men & transvestites. As a tall women they are the only men who have showed me any love or kindness. I am in no way having a phobia of them? The father of my children is my “joto” bestie. We are inseperable! ” Do I like being called a man though? No I do not!!!!” :( I’m sure I’m prettier (&more femenine) than Madonna, Demi, Rumer, Vanessa Hudgens, Jennifer Aniston (in the face, do men ever look there)? Yet I’m a tranny? It’s not a compliment! I know some beautiful men indeed but as a woman it hurts to be treated as less than a woman for “SOMETHING I CAN’T CONTROL”!! Sound familiar?

  75. Emily says:

    I’m a tall girl. I am not attracted to a man who is looking up at me. Period. I’m just not.
    It’s not shallow. It is sexual attraction which I cannot control. If I were five foot two, I would certainly date a man who is five foot seven. Or whatever. But I am not. I am five foot ten, and feel bizarre leaning over to kiss a man or being the big one in bed. So yes, I prefer to date men over six feet, who, ironically, only want short women. I’m also willowy like a model and work out, eat healthy, etc. All the men in good shape prefer chunky girls. It’s the way it is.

    People seem to think that a woman has no right to be with a man she’s attracted to. That she should find a nice guy who is sweet and buys her flowers, screw her eyes shut, and let him hump her every night even though it feels awkward and unpleasant for her. Let’s all remember that women have sexual response too. We also want to date men to whom we are attracted sexually. Otherwise we end up in a marriage where we never want to have sex, fight over lack of sex, miss sex,etc. Why are people so damn dead set on encouraging others to date those to whom they are not sexually attracted? I’d be miserable in a relationship like that. I HAVE been miserable in a relationship like that.

    My advice to short men is to run your search features with that in mind. Most dating sites call it “advanced search” or something like that. Look for women shorter than you.

    That goes for everything. I have kids, and a lot of guys don’t want to date single moms. I’m not trying to change their minds. I run searches for single daddies or men who say they can accept a partner with children.

    I personally quit online dating recently, but my advice to everyone is know what you’re sexually attracted to, know what type of person (other than physically) you want in your life, search for that accordingly, and be patient. I gave up for other reasons, but if I try it again that’s what I’ll do.

    • bruce says:

      @Emily,
      “I’m a tall girl. I am not attracted to a man who is looking up at me. Period. I’m just not.
      It’s not shallow. ”

      And apparently not very good at reading comprehension. (Sorry for being snarky–must be that Napoleon-Complex thing.)

      As it been sited over and over again–you are being shallow. If that’s how you want to roll–fine with me.

      • Mario says:

        Hi Emily,

        Your desire for tall men is a sexual attraction that has more to do with the socialization of our species, particularly in western culture. The media is the epicentre of trends that tell you who you should like and why you should like that person. The hunter, gatherer, caveman, cavewoman theories or yesteryear still have more than one leg up in the dating world. To me they are dated and obsolete. Clearly, a lot of women and some men haven’t evolved or graduated to the 21st century. I would have to argue it’s more the women who modernize the prehistoric mating rituals of the stone age. The evidence lies in the fact that “tall” is still the benchmark for grading quality males. Your level of attraction to a man increases with every inch he has in height. Even at the extreme ends of the female height spectrum, a mans lack of height is still a major deal breaker to her. There are enough women standing no taller than 5’2 who want 6’2 and not an inch shorter. Then there are the supermodel types who act like they are better than everyone else and have a serious sense of entitlement to the taller guys.

        Emily, I don’t think the focus of derision is based on people thinking a woman should not be allowed to date who she’s attracted to. We like who we like and we are attracted to who attracts us, as the old saying goes. Women and men should be allowed to date who they feel attracted to but that in itself is compromised. What I find bothersome is that society deems it perfectly natural to call me a “fetish freak” if me as a shorter guy is attracted to a taller woman. The larger the difference in height, the more of a freak I am?! Why can’t short men like who they like without the negative connotations. Are we that unnattractive? Are we disease ridden, half-grown, wastes of men? Furthermore, a short guys attraction to a taller women supposedly brings uncomfortable feelings of mommydom, sisterhood, or babysitteritis with a little kid. All this does is serve up another excuse for tall women to feel sorry about themselves and hate on shorter guys. Women only allow themselves to be attracted to a man at the surface level and it starts and ends with his height. A tall, less handsome, ogrish looking guy will always have favour with the ladies. His height gets him in the door. Her only hope is that he’s not a monster or complete jerk who will take advantage of her mentally and physically. If everything else falls into place meaning he has good manners, good personality, good values, sense of humour, strong sense of character and is educated no less, she’s hit the jackpot. Women are more than willing to sacrifice all the above mentioned for a tall guy, but rarely for a shorter guy. They don’t put a fraction of the same effort into a shorter guy that they do for a taller guy. Social and parental pressures tell her she’s wasting her time. Aside from that, her pyschological intuition reminds her to not be attracted to the shorter guy. It doesn’t surprise me anymore that women take the risk of getting abused or cheated on in relationships with taller guys who know they can get away it. Another woman is always waiting for him so he can treat the current girl as he sees fit. At the same time it’s even less surprising to hear about single moms, women going through painful separations or divorcees jumping on and off the online dating bandwagon. Some of these women, who would never dare set foot in the personal space of a shorter guy, can’t get enough of them now. If not, it means being alone unless she want to fight a losing battle with the younger girls. There’s no lack of older women chasing around the same younger guys as part of this cougar craze. All of a sudden she allows herself to be turned on to shorter guys even after years of strictly casting them out?

        Another thing. Women still to all the choosing for the most part. You are the ones who ultimately accept a date or refuse it. Men choose who we approach but we really don’t have the innate choice of the women we date unless you are blessed with height. There are those occasions when a woman approaches the man first. Some of them are even taller than the man. These are the super confident, non-heightist, carefree type ladies who are just looking to have fun. They are comfortable with their height and are used to being taller than everyone. There is respect for all men, not just the tall ones. No doubt, they still might prefer taller guys to date but they are smart enough to know that cutting out men by height limits her amount of fun.

        One more thing, patience isn’t entirely virtuous for short guys. If it means waiting to meet a woman closer to her retirement years, then yes. I’ve discovered that seniors care a whole lot less about height and more about the bingo skills. Beyond that, being patient for a short guy means watching everyone else have all the fun while you deal with a world of insults and rejection? Yeah, good things come to those who wait but I’d rather take my chances and deal with a woman saying “no” to me rather than guessing if she’s going to say no.

        So please try not to hate on me if I find you attractive, compliment you and make my way over to you to say hello! Turn your head the other way if you don’t want me coming closer. Say thank you and tell me that you’re flattered even if you’re not interested in me. Tell me the truth but trying not to be too mean and hurt my feelings. That’s all I that ask.

    • Andrew says:

      Emily, it’s still shallow. I’m sorry, but there’s no way to spin it. You are griping about things that are SO trivial in the grand scheme of things. I’ll repeat it one more time: If a man were to say “I only date women with D cup tits or larger” every woman on the planet would call him a shallow pig.

      But somehow, it’s perfectly acceptable for women to say “I only date men 6′ or taller”. I understand that you are tall, but it doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a number. It’s height, big deal. And in bed, it makes NO difference. Trust me, I’ve been with women your height and logistically it worked just fine. You’re just coming up with excuses to justify your shallow requirement. It’s NOT even a “preference” because you’re creating an absolute. Zero deviance.

      Look, if you want to date taller men that’s fine. GO FOR IT! But you can’t deny that it’s shallow. In the grand scheme of things, a person’s height has no more to do with their personality or the quality of their character than the size of a woman’s tits. Period.

      You should be MORE concerned with dating a man who is honest, sincere, funny, intelligent, has ambition, etc. A man who will be a good role model for your children and treat you well. If he’s 5’8, who cares? You’re basing your entire opinion on what OTHER people will think and how it will look.

    • bruce says:

      I’m a tall girl. I am not attracted to a man who is poorer than me. Period. I’m just not.
      It’s not shallow. It is sexual attraction which I cannot control. If I were a millionaire, I would certainly date a man who has billions. Or whatever. But I am not. I am a secretary and make 40K a year, and feel bizarre having to pay for things like dinner. So yes, I prefer to date men with a six figure income, who, ironically, only want rich women.

      People seem to think that a woman has no right to be with a man she’s attracted to. That she should find a nice guy who is sweet and buys her flowers, screw her eyes shut, and let him hump her every night even though she still has to get up in the morning and go to work.

      Let’s all remember that women have sexual response too. We also want to date men to whom we are attracted sexually. Otherwise we end up in a marriage where we never want to have sex, fight over lack of money, miss money,etc. Why are people so damn dead set on encouraging others to date those to whom they are not sexually attracted? I’d be miserable in a relationship like that. I HAVE been miserable in a relationship like that….

    • Some Dude says:

      Just pointing out …

      Having kids, gaining weight, working smart to be rich, etc are things you do in life. They are mostly within your control. You can hide your age with makeup, your imperfections with clothes, etc. Height, on the other hand is not in anybody’s control. It cannot be hidden.

      Next, to address your sexual attraction. You want to feel small to feel aroused. You want to be dominated, manhandled, abused in a sexual way, … because it is the only way you can really get off with the most pleasure. You have been programmed that way, from childhood. Your dad was controlling, towards you or towards your mom or sister. You have seen in the media how bigger men always seem to be able to dominate the women and get the women. You have seen how your girl friends proclaimed how sexy taller men were.

      Now you are at a stage where you have let’s say 25 criteria or the ideal man, one of those criteria is that he should be taller than you. So if you find a man who has 24 or your 25 criteria but he is only 5’7″, you will reject him. On the other hand, if you find a man who meets only 10 out of your 25 criteria but he is 6’4″, you will want him to be your sex partner.

      Note that when you make yourself available for sex and if you choose your partner for sex only, that’s what you will get. Get ready to suck him off and be humped whenever the big oaf wants. Don’t divorce him later because he cannot provide or because he is not sensitive or whatever else. And if he dumps you after you have a child, don’t complain that men don’t like you because you have a child. It’s all your choice. You chose! The shorter men never chose their height.

      • Ila says:

        Tall women have no choice. This lady is only above average! Not even tall & she is unhappy with her damn dating pool? Try being truly tall? Haha it’s lonely up here. I respect that for SOME dudes it is lonely down there. You should be Mexican they get all the little girls they want at 5’2? Good luck!

  76. volonte says:

    I have read this entire thread and want to add a few more points. Some have said that height preference is inherent due to genetic coding, however I will argue the the media has more to do with setting the standardized social views on what is quantitatively deemed most desirable.

    Most may not know that 6ft tall in the US only applies to 14% of the population-over 6 ft 3 only applies to 4% of us, (I belong in this group) and this deduces the perceived and widely accepted (six feet tall is standard factor) into more of a chase of rare gem. There simply is not enough us taller guys to go around and it creates massive competition for women and increased pressure on shorter men below 5′ something. All of this is senseless in my opinion.

    I also think that women in American are amongst the most competitive I have ever seen anywhere.
    They cannot stand it when someone “hotter” or more gorgeous then them enters a room-especially socially. They look at each other up and down, scanning for imperfections, and I can only guess what happens when a tall, dark, handsome fit male walks into the room.( Geez… but do guys do that? Don’t think so. )

    I also think that shorter guys feel the heat in various facets of life. I also assume in the work place and on the playing field as well. Life is not fair.

    All though I am tall, my brother is short. He stands around 5 ft 6. He has very low self esteem and is not a “hit” with the ladies in general. We differ on every front and I see and
    ‘feel” how he reacts to me whenever I come over to visit or walk into the room. Now that I am older and wiser, I can say that his lack of fear or rejection has put him on the fast track to nowhere with the ladies, and he probably will live a life with very many girlfriend experiences.

    I guess this is why I empathize with this problem.
    Well, anyway, my point is we all have preferences but let’s be real about why we have them. Wearing high heels should not be the basis.

    • volonte says:

      I meant “his” lack of confidence and fear of rejection has put him on the fast track to nowhere with the ladies…..

      Sorry, but was typing too quickly and did not do a spell/grammar check.

      • Pintsize says:

        I’m a tiny girl. I’m 5’1. My soon to be hubby is 6’6. I’ve dated short guys, well shorter like 5’8 & up. Truth is is small girls love big guys & they love us tiny girls. It’s just the way it is. It’s luck. My brother is 5’6 & complains a lot. He even dated a big tall girl, I think they looked crazy. He has trouble due to his height. My new hubby to be has a big sister who hates me because I’m so cute. Truth is he likes me that way & all you whiners and haters who aren’t desirable are pissed!

      • bruce says:

        Dear Pintsize,

        Hopefully, some kind soul will have a blog you can commiserate on after your 6′ 6″ hubby leaves you for the younger (and still cute) 5’1″ he meets at work.

        (BTW: most “under 6″ guys actually don’t want vain, self absorbed and insecure women–yea, there are challenges, but its actually easier because we don’t have to wade through a lot of undesirables.)
        Oh, and to Alex. Sounds like a plan…remember that some (ok, a few more) women do eventually grow up, so you might want to re-consider after about 40.

      • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

        @Bruce
        Good call.

        Pintsize:
        “I’m a tiny girl. I’m 5’1. My soon to be hubby is 6’6. I’ve dated short guys, well shorter like 5’8 & up. Truth is is small girls love big guys & they love us tiny girls. It’s just the way it is. It’s luck. My brother is 5’6 & complains a lot. He even dated a big tall girl, I think they looked crazy. He has trouble due to his height. My new hubby to be has a big sister who hates me because I’m so cute. Truth is he likes me that way & all you whiners and haters who aren’t desirable are pissed!”

        2short4u:
        Lol.

        Putting that through the Internet Troll Analyser you get:

        Translator ON.

        …I’m actually part of the demographic that is the typical “short man hater”. While I am really 5’1, I’m not quite as “pint-sized” as I pretend to be (my fiancé? As fictional as my lofty attitude… which I will quickly demonstrate with my next trolling response.) I want to fuel a flame war between shorter men and taller women since it draws focus away from my group.

        As a person who has basically created my own undesirability, I need to ridicule those who are marginalized only because of an innate and immutable trait.

        Don’t go to any typical dating forum and find out who always tries to “shame” shorter men for identifying the prejudice. What you will find is that people who use the word, “whiner” usually have a common self-inflicted undesirable trait.

        I can’t face the fact that I don’t have the will power to change, so I’ll deny my own misery by trying to hurt others. Think about it. Would a happy and well-adjusted person come here to flame-bait (much less someone who is actually part of a desired group?)

        Analyser OFF.

        Lol.

        Trolls are so easy to identify. Just look at what they leave out of their story to discover who they really are.

    • Ila says:

      I agree u r just a troll! If u r real
      BEWARE !! My baby brother has dated a lot of girls! Sadly some are short! I’ve never held it against them (only him) if they are short! However he had a mean little thing a few years back!!!! My mom & I took her out of the picture in record time! He was ours first & we know how to get rid of you! Hes a 6’6 plastic surgeon so imagine her dismay! Lol & she needed his surgery because she was hatchet faced & needed a lot of lipo:)

  77. tallgirl says:

    Thanks guys! You’ve reminded me why I never comment on blogs. And because most of you have such bad attitudes, you’ve actually given me a brand NEW reason not to date short guys, and/or guys that comment on blogs!

    Thanks, 2Short4U, for researching the curly hair thing. It’s real. I know a woman whose husband requested she straighten hers regularly. She would secretly wear it curly when he was out of town. They didn’t make it long. My sister has kind of medium curly hair so she wears it both ways equally. She’s often given advice to wear her hair straight on a first date as to not “scare” a guy off. Ridiculous. I will continue to rock my curls and seek men that like my curls, just as men here need to seek women who don’t care about height.

    Now I’m off to find a tall guy to bang that doesn’t mind that I’m a fat, ugly, c**t bitch, with bad hair and a terrible personality. ;)

    Stay classy, my friends!

    • Anon. says:

      tallgirl: I don’t recall anyone calling you a “fat, ugly, c**t bitch, with bad hair and a terrible personality”. They simply called you shallow. And using the fact they people called you out on it as further excuse to not date short guys is redundant and only proving their point.

      For example, I am a procrastinator. It’s not an ideal trait to have but it is part of who I am. I may choose to alter this behavioral trait if it is causing me problems but it is not so I’ll continue procrastinating. It doesn’t make me a better or worse person– it just is what it is.

      Similarly, you being a shallow person romance-wise does not mean you are a bad person. You could be an awesome person. It just means you allow what many perceive to be superficial traits to influence your choice of mate. The “attacks” you are receiving above aren’t because you don’t like short guys; it’s because you don’t like short guys but can’t own up to it and would rather hide behind bull-shit excuses. That’s what’s causing the ire above.

      If you found and rejected a guy who seemed “perfect” for you (ideal personality, great job, etc) but was an inch or two shorter than you, that just means you make bad decisions; in the long run he’d probably be your ‘ideal’ mate. Let’s say he’s got 19 out of the 20 things you’re looking for in a partner. Would you still reject him? What about that 6’1” guy who’s got 12 out 20? How does he win out over the other guy? What if the guy was exactly your height? Do you see what I’m getting at?

      Long story short (pun not intended): Is that what you really want? Well if it is, then screw me and all those other guys for hatin’. It’s your life and you’re gonna live it as you please regardless. But to quote the Stones:

      “You don’t always get what you want to, but if you try sometimes you might find
      you get what you need”.

      And what we’re all trying to convey here is that, you all *want* taller guys (which is fine) but don’t f’in’ claim you *need* them…

      • Andrew says:

        Anon, Exactly!

        Tallgirl, that was exactly my point. It makes me no difference to me if you want to date tall men, but own the fact that you’re shallow.

        Again, if a guy said “I only date women with perfect, pretty, perky, D Cup+ Tits” 99% of women would call him shallow.

        I don’t have a bad attitude at all, I’m just stating the facts. I’m calling a spade a spade. As I stated above, I’ve never had problems finding women who want to date me so your “short bashing” does not hurt my feelings in the slightest. You won’t admit that dating men based on their height is just as shallow as a man dating a woman for having big tits or straight hair.

        Also, for the record, I have no issues with curly hair. I’ve dated plenty of girls who had curly hair and they looked good with it BOTH ways. Some looked better with curly, some with straight. Here’s the the kicker though: At least you can straighten your hair! I am not aware of any plug in appliances I can use to fix my height. :)

    • Some Dude says:

      “I know a woman whose husband requested she straighten hers regularly. ”

      The “woman” you know chose her husband (or agreed to his proposal). I thought American women liked to test drive their men before getting married, just as American men like to test drive their cars before signing the title papers.

      Hey, don’t complain that you got a bad deal after you agreed to the deal. There are so many men who like women with curly hair. However, my guess is that those men were too short for you (or the “woman” you know).

  78. Anon. says:

    Addendum:

    There’s a really telling clip on youtube you all might enjoy. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR3YR1ZTonc — you might be able to find the full segment on Hulu; it’s from the show 20/20)

    For those who don’t wanna search for it or click the link:

    They put a short guy (5’0”) in a line up with taller guys and the women were supposed to choose who they would like to go on a date with. Naturally they chose the bigger guys. Then they said the short guy was a doctor, a millionaire, and a professional skier who just built a ski chalet and they still chose the other guys. When asked why, they said because he’s too short. When asked what would it take to choose the short guy, the women said, only if the other guys were “psychotic” or
    convicts”.

    I wanna call bull-sh*t on that: we all know the convicts and psychos get bonus points because they’ve got the “bad boy vibe”…

    • Andrew says:

      Which, of course, demonstrates that being short is the LEAST desirable trait a male can have. Below having a huge nose, an ugly face, a low salary, a small penis, a horrible personality, bald, being a rapist, etc.

      • Jessica says:

        Well I’m glad you are happy! Ila represents most of us tall girls who have been tortured our whole lives “for something I/ we cannot control or fix”!!!! I wonder about where you live? Like Ila… I live in a very inhospitable place for “monsters”. Men, I don’t think you can imagine the cruelty & hatred tall women face each day. While your issues are dating mine are simply going to a grocery store without embarrassment or harrasment!!!!! Is that what you face? I don’t try to take away from your feelings but imagine being embarrassed, degraded, and questioned for EXISTING ? ! !!?

    • Ila says:

      Do a similar experiment and tall women won’t do well against short women either even if they are fat, have mustaches, are sluts, criminals, have std’s, are junkies, have 5 kids by 5 guys, have crooked teeth I COULD GO ON I think you’ve got it. I’m not taking away from the problems you men feel just pointing out that height is powerful in many forms. It’s not a fair world!

      • Not A Tall Guy says:

        Are you kidding me? Tall women are absolutely hot!!! I’m 5’7″ and I love taller women. Most often the taller women are kinder, nicer to others, etc because they have had difficulties in life which has built their character. The sad thing is that they have not built their character enough to overcome societal prejudices.

        I’m supposedly very good looking and I know that I’m more successful than all of my classmates from high school, college and graduate school, except with dating.

        Taller women never agree to go out on dates. Heck, even women my height often do not agree. Mind you, I look for women who are very well educated, at least as educated as I am, but even education does not seem to help overcome these prejudices.

        The whole deal about overweight women … it’s not men who reject you as much as you reject yourself by listening to other women talk about weight as an important criterion for men. Trust me, men would date a woman of a wide range of weights, except the men who feel too entitled to something, and you don’t want them anyway.

        I’m looking for intellect, absolute brilliance in intellect. I’m yet to find her. And I am not the kind of man whose masculinity would be threatened if a woman were taller or smarter than me. In fact, I would love to have a partner who is taller and smarter, but it is the women who are taller or who are smarter who think that men would not like them and they stay away.

        Also, to the whole dating game with female passivity … There’s this whole myth about how the women needs to prim herself into a beautiful model and wait passively for some knight in shining armor to show up and save you and protect you from the world and then do everything to ensure your happiness. That’s total baloney.

        Relationship is a two-way street. If you want someone, and you find him, go talk to him and ask him out on a date. If he feels negatively in any way that you asked him out, he’s not the one for you. Don’t want for the world to come to you.

        I will close with an example to explain …
        You see this guy in a coffee shop, busy doing something – reading a book, typing away at his computer, … – and you really find him cute or attractive. However, you don’t ask him out. However, there’s this other guy, totally horny, would fuck any girl, and he sees you as easy prey. He comes over to you and asks you out. His intention is to get into your pants. And when the penis begins to think, the man will say and do anything to get what he wants. He doesn’t love you. He just gets sex from you. And he does the bare minimum to get it.

        You know that 99% of relationships (mostly initiated by men who ask you out) break up and over 50% of marriages (most of which are also initiated by men proposing to you) end in divorce. Don’t you think it is time for women to ask out on a date that cute guy you saw in the coffee shop? Take initiative for what you want in life! That shows your confidence. A confident (not arrogant) woman is very hot, regardless of your weight, looks, or whatever else.

      • Ila says:

        We are always looking to prove to the world that we are girls. We’ve been jokes so long we simply can’t add to our misery & strange looks! Why short women don’t like you I’ll never know? If I was 5’0 tomorrow my man could be 5’1… In my town short men Really hate taller women!!! They are plentiful here. I wake up each morning & attempt to “resemble” a girl & I guess it’s not working. I’m not even joking I’ve wondered if I was an amputee if I could find a husband? Now how sick is that? Be nice to us giants k?

      • Ila says:

        Tall women & women in general
        will always be asked not do asking now that is human nature!!!

      • Sarah says:

        I’m a 6′ tall woman and happen to be objectively ‘good looking’ as well. Which I say not because I think it has any super significance (I will get old and die soon enough just like everybody else), but because I don’t have any problem with men of all heights finding me attractive. In high school maybe I intimidated guys, but that was also because I didn’t act stupid. My friend who was my same height put on the giggly girl act all the time and had no end of boyfriends. So I think this problem IS greater for men than women, actually. I am currently madly in love with a guy who’s 5’7-5’8ish, and as desperately as I want for it not to matter, it’s been a huge mental battle. It’s not just media, society and culture, there’s also an element of biological, evolutionary hard-wiring that tells us women to find a protector for us and our children. Our lizard brains tell us this means somebody taller, which is, as the writer of this blog pointed out, just ridiculous in this day and age. Thankfully, I am so in love that my higher mind is winning over said lizard brain. So, ‘Not A Tall Guy’ and other short guys out there–don’t give up. Have confidence and focus on living your life to the fullest. The right girl for you won’t be able to not love you because of your height. Take it from me, it’s impossible. Read about Seth Green and his gorgeous wife Clare Grant and take heart.

      • bruce says:

        Thanks for the input and the ability to see past what gets in other’s way…however, and perhaps because its hard to see from such a long distance (sorry, couldn’t resist)…but you are NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT hard-wired to want someone BIGGER. Yes, you are “wired” to seek “alpha” but now, as in the past, that DOES NOT MEAN BIGGER. The alpha dog isn’t the biggest dog…just the best fighter…the alpha ape isn’t the biggest, just the smartest…the rest is all madision ave.

      • Sarah says:

        P.S. Ila, it seems to me your problem isn’t your height, it’s your confidence…I think this is probably the case for a lot of short men/tall women who claim their height is to blame for their dating problems. I love my life and my career, enjoy getting ready in the morning but don’t spend my day worried about how I look, have traveled internationally and pursued 3 degrees. I love myself, my life and the world. I stand straight and look people in the eye when I talk and I think that matters much more than how I look or how tall I am, in the end. I really do.

  79. Anon. says:

    Seriously, men and women, tall and short: Go “people watching” when it gets warm outside. See the couples with the tall guys. Volonte touched on this in his video that he posted. Try to OBJECTIVELY assess the looks of the tall guys. Use your hand to block out his body and try to forget how tall he is.

    There are of course a-plenty of attractive, tall guys out there, but you’ll also see a lot of tall ones that are down-right fugly, obese, or look like they shop at the Salvation Army– traits I thought were undesirable but seem to be ignorable as you approach the 6′ mark. And the sad thing is that they’re dating girls that look pretty attractive. I’ve met a few guys that belong in the later category over my life and the reasoning “he’s got game” or “he’s got a nice personality” falls on its face in more instances that I care to admit.

    LADIES: Stop trading down! In a lot of these cases you’re selling yourselves short but the only difference is that we short guys now how screwed we are!

    Trade up by going down!

    (fyi, short for me is 5’7”– Yeah, I know it’s not really that short. Yeah, that’s what I told her too. No, she didn’t care).

  80. 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

    @Mario

    Mario:
    “Good points 2Short4U, nicely done!
    Your analysis and breakdown of the responses here is quite interesting.”

    2short4u:
    Your compliments are appreciated (unless you’re under 5-9, then I can’t even hear you. I hear Volonte because he’s worthy of commenting, but all you shorter guys, just stop trying, it sounds like some French dictator ranting… Lol… just kidding… thanks for the kudos.)

    Mario:
    “Babysitteritis”

    2short4u:
    I’m suing you for causing me to spew coffee on my keyboard: Too funny!

    @Jessica

    Jessica:
    “Height requirements-most guys on dating sights ( I do not go on but have looked at my friends) do have a limit set at their own height or shorter. You are wrong. They would however date midgets. They say any height up to x (which is usually their height http://www.bellagio.com/spasalon/spa.aspx The Bellagio Las Vegas Spa is an award-winning beauty oasis focused on pampering you. … You may also make room reservations by calling 888.987. 6667. Restaurants …or shorter). Taller men usually cap off at 5’10 or 5’11.”

    2short4u:
    This is why there is a vast difference between “opinion” and informed reasoning.

    Not only is there no evidence to support the claim that men have an upper limit to height insofar as deeming a woman eligible, the aforementioned challenge to provide just ONE example has been surreptitiously avoided.

    Add to that, the need to include an extremely uncomplimentary descriptor of one’s perceived rivals (shorter women) and it is clear that there is unlikely to be any real corroboration of this claim. (Slaying your argument, but not you.)

    The suggestion that the “cap off” (even for taller men) is unspoken also lacks any supporting exhibits. None of the men responding here (both tall and short) have alluded to any such restriction. I can understand huge differences in height, but a few inches either way is not a big deal to most (really essentially ALL) men.

    (Lol… it was just the cellphone… here I was thinking you were planning a Bellagio retreat for you and me.)

    Jessica:
    “It’s a fact that short men & taller women get less responses online.
    So I’m saying the problem is similar in other places.. Where I live most men are short.”

    2short4u:
    It is also a fact that it is apparent that mentioning the existence of other social exclusion purposely ignores the far greater magnitude and prevalence of the “no men shorter than xx” prejudice.

    Has this point been mentioned enough times yet? ;-)

    Jessica:
    “Many models have or had problems dating, maybe not the extreme famous supermodels. Although some of them are with men who are old, unattractive & yes at times short. So maybe Giselle did ok but it’s a rarity.”

    2short4u:
    Having problems finding/attracting potential mates is not exclusive to shorter men. However, having explicit restrictions listed in black and white (and having these restrictions defended with the typical irrational reasons) is.

    There, we have mentioned that point again. There’s seems to be a lot of trouble with accepting the relative severity of “shorter men intolerance” compared to other stigma.

    It is interesting that, at first glance, one finds some of the men that models choose are considered to be “old, unattractive and sometimes short.” (Which is suggests the notion that somehow these models are “settling” for less-than-ideal choices.) This exemplifies how superficially we can often judge things.

    Perhaps a closer encounter could reveal that the elderly man had many qualities that made him a first choice. That unattractive (as in somewhat facially repugnant) could be the alpha of alphas (lol, it makes me think of Alex Ovechkin.) The shorter guy, well maybe he’s one of the many cool guys that just happened to be under 5-9 (since being cool has nothing to do with height.)

    Then again, all these guys could have been practicing that “swoop in and save the woman from herself” system… and got themselves a real babe.

    Jessica:
    “Many models I’ve known feel very down about their heights/ appearances.”

    2short4u:
    That really speaks to the environment that models have to endure during their more-often-than-not short-lived career.

    As a model you are a piece of meat that cannot afford to have even the slightest extra bit of weight. There’s always a better looking rival or new recruit. Amongst those peers, you are “average” (unless you are Giselle or another “top model”). In the end, you are expendable and the industry lets you know that in no uncertain terms. Yes I heard all this from a 5-11 ex-model.

    A similar microcosm of dysfunction is played out in every high school hallway, every club, every bar, or wherever women hang out trying to out-compete one another.

    Women should be more like men in these cases. We don’t care what whether another guy thinks he’s better or not. We always believe we are the greatest thing on earth since fuel injection, and that every woman is there for us alone.

    Jessica:
    “I mentioned Anna Nicole because you never see a tall & curvy woman (she was the only one I could think of). My point being that’s not an idealized form of beauty. The only other woman I could think of was Khole K who has recorded media hatred for her appearance/size. I think she’s quite pretty, but I’m a woman.”

    2short4u:
    We see far fewer “tall & curvy” mainly because “tall” is a rarity on it’s own. Consider too that being tall is not guaranteeing one to have a large frame. More often than not, height seems to manifest as a “stretch” of the limbs and therefore tall and slender is more likely the case. Even so, both Anna Nicole, and Khloe K. are not what one would consider “large framed” (especially when compared to men.)

    Khloe gets a lot of negative attention because of the laser-precision microscope that every celebrity gets put under. This is especially so for those who attempt to leverage the looks-oriented business that Hollywood is (…like Arnold and Steve Seagal had thespian skills; “I’m just the cook”. Yeah, you certainly aren’t an actor, and I want my money back!)

    If she is intending to be a celebrity (not an actor, but a “star”), she better expect to be pretty much perfect. Yes. Perfect. Anything shy of that, and you will be ridiculed. You and me do not write the rules for that, Hollywood does. Interestingly, they also wrote the “big bxxbs” and “Tall, dark and handsome” rules.

    That’s “reel” life.

    Now, back from planet Hollywood… REAL life shouldn’t exaggerate celebrity rules into prejudices that seek to ostracize people based on the antithesis of media driven “perfection.” People still take that parking space several blocks away because only on the silver screen do people park right in front of where they were going. No amount of “I demand only the space right in front of the restaurant,” makes one more attractive or deserving (you’ll probably just go hungry.)

    Jessica:
    “Shorter men do not line up to date me, I’m not prejudiced against people. I’m shy & rarely go out other than for work & family because I hate negative attention.”

    2short4u:
    If they aren’t lining up to date you in particular, it may be more because you rarely go out than because you aren’t “5-2 with eyes of blue, etc.” (Yet another Hollywood promoted ideal.) Going by what we see here on this blog-o-sphere, many of the guys would not exclude you based on your height.

    It’s human nature to be adverse to negative attention (well, pretty much animal kingdom nature too.) Who actually wants to be abused? However, as much as we can detect negative treatment directed our way, we are often indifferent to, or even unaware of, the ill treatment we impart upon others (even vicariously.)

    That lack of awareness is part of what is being addressed here. As you can see, there are many a “defender” of height restriction who don’t want the reality of the prejudice revealed: neither personally nor to anyone else. Without moderation (and even with it), conversations on this topic quickly devolve into vicious name-calling fights in attempts to deter participation. Some dating sites do their best to ban the topic altogether (like ignoring it will magically make it go away.)

    The truth has been, and still is, that height restriction is a media-fuelled prejudice, which has no basis in “natural instinct” no matter how loudly, or repeatedly some shout it out.

    Jessica:
    “Thank you for agreeing that ride counts are rude. Oh & amazon is not a compliment to an ozon. I have thought of getting it tattooed on my ankle lol. What do you think?”

    2short4u:
    No problem. It is rude and deserves immediate remonstration should it occur.

    What do I think? (aside from your smart phone auto-complete function sucking bigger than the Greek economy? “Rude Comments” gets converted to “Ride Counts” LOL x 10)

    There’s nothing sexier than a well-executed bit of ink on a woman’s ankle. Wear a little anklet to draw initial attention and guys will be tripping over each other to start a conversation with you.

    A bit of trance-producing perfume mixed in with the dreamy natural scent of a woman, a daring but not too revealing outfit, a pair of designer heels: drinks are on me. I need a cold shower now… Man, guys are so easy to turn on…

    Jessica:
    “Oh & yes , I’ve been alone my whole life other than my daughter. She is mine. There are indeed lots of ways to have a child without a relationship.”

    2short4u:
    Cloning? Lol.

  81. Confused Ryu says:

    All these pretty words will be ignored by the other species called “women”. All of these detailed thesis of “the short guy plight” can’t stand up to “I like wearing heels”! Their insecurities and heels will always supersede anything any short guy has to offer.

    It’s just so fucking sad that I wish some kind of natural phenomena like a Gamma Ray burst or a black hole would just end us all. Our suffering would come to end. All the unwanted people of the world wouldn’t have to suffer anymore. I know there are people that are much worse off than I am, but why do I have to suffer the fate of being alone? 5’5″ that’s why!! That insignificant measurement that says nothing about me as a person. One of the great reasons I like being my height is because I don’t have to worry about people asking me if I’m a basketball player. I hate that fucking sport!! I feel so lucky. Being African American means that I would have to suffer such stupid questions endlessly. Enough ranting for now!

    • bruce says:

      One word: Spud Webb (ok, two words, one name).
      I too hate basketball now…but not because of my height…its because who wants to watch a bunch of spoil millionaires shoot free throws.
      And Ryu, suffering is the nature of the world. As for being alone; be your own best friend and pretty soon you wont be alone. There are people (women too) who actually do judge people for who they are. True, you won’t find them on Match.com, probably not in too many bars, but they do exist. While recently single now, I’ve never really been outside of a relationship since I was 16 (and that includes an 18 year marriage)…and you are taller than I.

  82. Alex Figura says:

    I am 5’7″ and girls are not interested, even though I am lean, ripped to shreds, and good looking face wise. You know what, I got over it. Girls are not worth my time. Why the HELL would I work 10 times as hard as some tall guy to get some girl that is “pretty” but really nothing that special anyway? I Do not want a family, or a wife and kids. Puke. I am going to bang HOT call girls the rest of my life on my awesome engineering salary. Once I am making money I’m sure I’ll have more regular women attracted to me, but I just don’t care any more. I don’t find regular girls the least bit attractive, even the “hot” ones. Give me a stripper and/or call girl to shag and I am a happy guy.

    To all the sluts, strippers and call girls out there — I LOVE YOU <3

      • Andrew says:

        No doubt. I think Alex’s problem has less to do with his height and more to do with his attitude. Pull up your pants, Alex, your bitterness is showing. If you act douchey like that around women it’s no wonder you don’t land any of them.

        As far as I can tell, most of you other short dudes are having problems because of your attitude and/or outlook NOT your height. Look, I’m short too. Yes, girls often discriminate against us. But so what? Get over it! I think everyone faces rejection. I’ve seen plenty of tall dudes get rejected for being lame, or being a dick. I’ll repeat it one more time: Yes, women tend to go for tall dudes. BUT, women LOVE confidence. Not cockyness, Alex, confidence. If you walk around with a chip on your shoulder (Alex) or if you walk around looking all mopey all the time (Bruce) women are going to shun you.

        Stop overthinking things, stop trying so hard, and just be yourself. If you exude confidence and you talk to them, you WILL win them over. I’ve ended up on dates with women who completely turned me down at first. Be persistent, but not creepy. Be charming, but not mushy. Be intelligent, but not Mr. Know It All.

        Trust me, if you do these things you will eventually land women. I’m only 5’6 and I’ve NEVER had a problem. I’ve never been single for very long, and yes, in some cases I have won women over my tall friends. While they were busy tripping over each other fighting it out for a girl by putting each other down, I swooped in and chatted her up and won her affection. I’m not making this stuff up guys, it’s the truth. Give it a shot, see if it works.

      • bruce says:

        Mopey? Sorry, no wrong dwarf…”Dopey”

    • Don’t worry buddy, I’m sure they love you too! In fact they love you long time.

  83. Confused Ryu says:

    Andrew, I’m tired of hearing your tirade about having confidence. I have nothing but confidence in myself for quite a few reasons. Look…you can have all the confidence in the world, and still not change the situation.

    Up until recently I worked in an airport. I saw people come and go all the time. I met lots of interesting people. I hoped that I could a little lucky while I was at it. I don’t have a glorious job. I was the cleaner. The last guy any woman would think would approach them. I never let that get to me. I’ve hit on plenty of hot flight attendants, and passengers as well.

    All my confidence got me was “You’re such a great guy, and you’ll find someone.” Why can’t I hear for once “Hey, Why don’t we go out or something?” People always tell me to be patient and that you’ll find the right on. Wait!!! Is there a time limit for patience? If I continue to listen to these people all I’ll ever do is wait. Women don’t have to wait to find the right one, so why should I? I’m a short blue collar worker. I’m not making 60k a year. I have an average job.

    My confidence stems from the fact that I am A LOT more than my appearance says. In most women’s eyes why should I bother trying. They only want tall,dark,handsome, and successful men. Maybe if women stop being so superficial they’ll see what I REALLY have to offer. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

    • Confused Ryu says:

      And for the record I’ve approached women that were 5 or 6 inches taller than myself. I’m myself no matter who I’m around. I’m just sick of being seen as unattractive despite all the excellent qualities that I have. I have this never give up attitude, but even this battle is starting to wear me down. I don’t want to end up like Alex. I really don’t. I truly love women, but I want someone that is going to want to be with me for the right reasons. Not for something mundane.

      • volonte says:

        Please do yourself a favor an travel some where else within the world and see how you get treated by ladies.

  84. I’ve been called “short” and “tiny” before (standing at 5,4/5,5) but at the time I never thought anything of it. After reading each individual comment as well as the article, it’s made me a little apprehensive. I don’t approach women though I’ve always been one who’s confident in his abilities but the fear of rejection or, actual rejection, can be crippling to ones self-esteem so I avoid it. It does feel like a stab in the chest mainly because it’s a situation that’s beyond my control but also because, growing up I always held this notion that it was the content of ones character that determined how people perceived you but as my research continues, it seems that, that notion is quickly being dismantled until it’ll eventually become a fairy tale concept. Women seem to be full of hypocrisies, reciting the same nonsense they’ve absorbed from society and the media (whether consciously or unconsciously, the damage is done) “We need to feel protected” ” I LIEK TO WARE HEALZ!”. People seem to think it’s fair to personally attack a man for his height, always ignoring the fact that it’s beyond his control. Being short is not a choice, in this society we live in, it’s a genetic misfortune. A short man can be everything a woman “supposedly” wants in her ideal partner, yet their ENTIRE beliefs on what makes the perfect partner for them, is quickly thrown asunder if the man doesn’t permeate through their filter. Also a quick question, why is it when a tall man is assertive, confident, outgoing and opinionated, it’s considered “sexy” and encouraged, but when a short man exhibits these very same feats, he’s labelled as “Napoleonic”, it’s almost as though they find it insulting that a short men can be assertive, confident, outgoing and confident. There’s enough ideas floating around in my mind to write a full dissertation but I’d like to keep those with long and short-attention spans alike, interested in what I’ve said.

    Also, I was recently on a site which, coincidentally, posted an article that stated “The top 10 reasons to date a short man” and it seems that whilst it was genuinely intended to be of good will, it ultimately became very condescending and pardon the pun, belittling. They were;

    ” 1. He’s not intimidating

    2. You can walk around holding hands without stance problems

    3. They look cute

    4. Whatever he does, he looks like he’s giving it his all

    5. He looks young

    6. He stimulates your maternal instincts

    7. They have a certain charm

    8. As he is eye-level, your neck doesn’t get tired

    9. He’ll walk about the same speed as you

    10. You can get away with fawning over him”

    I mean really? obviously posted by anyone other than a short man. It’s just insulting.

    • bruce says:

      RE: Top Ten Reasons….I dunno, i might have written it…its funny in a self-deprecating satirical way. I laughed…but then I’ve always wanted to open a BBQ joint and call it “Sacred Cow BBQ.”

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @Le-Roy Pierre-Samuel

      Le-Roy:
      “Women seem to be full of hypocrisies, reciting the same nonsense they’ve absorbed from society and the media (whether consciously or unconsciously, the damage is done) ‘We need to feel protected’ ‘ I LIEK TO WARE HEALZ!’. People seem to think it’s fair to personally attack a man for his height, always ignoring the fact that it’s beyond his control. Being short is not a choice, in this society we live in, it’s a genetic misfortune. A short man can be everything a woman “supposedly” wants in her ideal partner, yet their ENTIRE beliefs on what makes the perfect partner for them, is quickly thrown asunder if the man doesn’t permeate through their filter.”

      2short4u:
      Well put, my eloquent friend. Yes. It is the dysfunctional underpinnings of this degradation of social sophistication that we are dissecting here.

      The devout denigrators believe that this is about directly changing their attitudes (a typical reaction since the mindset of “it’s all about me” is essentially voluntary near-sightedness.) Their quick descent into hostility once their “reasoning” is exposed as flawed is clear proof that they are aware of the truth, but cannot face it (let alone be seen to be so irrational.)

      As you point out, all positive traits are suddenly spun around as negative once the height of the man does not achieve a passing grade. So repugnant is the stigma of actually appreciating and perhaps even intimately associating with a shorter man, all sorts of folklore is created. It sounds every bit as lowbrow as ethnic intolerance… because it is no different. A very ugly truth about the beholder: which is why promoters of it resort to campaigns of shouting down or shaming any who speak out against it.

      The need to feel superior to other females is apparent very strong amongst women. The media is aware of this and feeds well off of it. However, things were not that bad for shorter men in the past and it’s not as if the media didn’t exist 20 years ago. But something has changed and changed recently.

      The reversal in social acceptance seems to coincide with the emergence of online dating.

      There are some clear reasons for that.

      Firstly, the relative safety of not being physically present means the consequences of being disrespectful to others are not as dire.

      Secondly, accessibility to the attitudes of others is a whole order of magnitude better (we can see what other’s want in black and white, something that is not as easily seen in real life.)

      Thirdly, people quickly adopted the false notion that online dating was more akin to online shopping (where you pick and choose the attributes with impunity) and forgot that you are still essentially interacting with other humans. Of course, a painful truth to this third point is that like any transaction you actually have to come up with a mutually agreed price. In the case of a trophy, the price is your own relative worth. Notice that the lack of this is often projected onto the objects of disdain (in this case, the shorter man.)

      Add to all that, the desire to win in the eye’s of one’s peers, and suddenly the well intended online dating experience quickly degrades into the club scene that every out-competed person wanted to avoid in the first place.

      The top ten reasons to date a shorter man… written by a woman no doubt; misses the mark by about 30 miles. (lol… no wonder they need the guy to be funny,) I’ll probably get a lot of heat for this.

      @Anyone who is really thinking it’s hopeless:

      2short4u:
      In the real world a woman (outside of protection of “the flock” works better too: you have to be smart about picking the time and place where you compete) is as susceptible to a man’s own brand of advertising as she is to the media.

      If you truly are worthy (and a lot of that takes effort, so don’t anyone think that bringing a half-azz production to Broadway is going to win you a Tony) then there’s a good chance she’ll be sold on it. It’s not a guarantee, but your odds are a lot better.

      Use your charm against her weakness of wanting to feel like the most beautiful and desired princess on this planet. Your ego must be BULLET PROOF because it will be a firefight where no prisoners are taken. She will test you to the limit before giving in because that is what women do. There will be merciless Alpha males out there willing and able get her attention. Be a man (seems to work for guys like Bruce.)

      Whether a dragon in dilemma or not, there you have it.

      @Bruce:

      Bruce:
      “Sacred Cow BBQ.”

      2short4u:
      I’ll have a double Brahma Burger with Fries please!

      • @2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal

        Thank you for your response. Very well constructed answer, providing me with plenty of food for thought. I learnt a lot from reading that and I especially agree with the “bulletproof ego”. Seems like a plan to me, I’ll get to work on that immediately :D.

        @Bruce

        I tried, I really did but I just had to laugh at that, The sacred cow? loool I don’t even….

  85. Jessica says:

    I’m not arguing point by point with ANYONE (hint! Hint!). Tall women are in a bad situation aaaaannnnnddddd so are short men( I have to throw in depending on locality …because it’s MY reality)! I think it’s ok, sometimes I get the hurt feelings of “why are you single” & I simply answer honestly ” men find me repulsive” then people ( usually fat girls/ who I don’t hate on by the way ask questions)… So now I say “because that’s how I like it, men are body obsessed m***** f****** and I like to be alone” then they seem ok with my answer!! Porn, media, & plastic surgery has made men more unrealistic & creepy than ever! Men never liked me!! I will tell you though my teen daughter ( who is short ) is held against impossible standards too!!! Have fun on your porn sights alone! Us girls will be busy shopping! Peace!

    • Apollo says:

      I think it’s best to avoid women like Jessica and Ila. This goes for all men, short, average and tall. I don’t think it shouldn’t pose much of a problem since they’ve already stated enough times here that men avoid them on a daily basis. I don’t entirely believe it, judging how they describe themselves physically. I’ll bet they are both really good looking ladies. Tall women are hot in my book! Ladies, If you don’t like shorter guys appreciating you, and/or approaching you, that’s OK. At least some taller women women do. You two don’t really consider us among the group of men you say who want nothing to do with you anyways.

      There’s only so much encouragement you can give to a person, then it becomes a lost cause. I believe these two women are happy in their sorrow. It sure sounds like it to me. The dating difficulties they stress seem comfounded by their own beliefs of feeling inferior to short women. Apparently these little girls steal all the tall guys they wet themselves the world over. Add their pre-meditated beliefs of short guy inferiority and you get a nice recipe for discrimination. All these women seem to talk about is how men avoid them completely and prefer to date short little “hoes,” which isn’t true. These tall girls are WAY too deep in the hole of self pity in order to be dug out and saved. Stay in your hole and be happy ladies. Nothing wrong with it. In fact, I could care less because you aren’t being fair to yourself and the men who do like you. Tall men are still the here all and end all for you. Admit it and face it. Your wallowing in self pity is a broken record that can only be fixed by your own doing. If you think you’re too late to turn a page in your lives and start new beginnings, let the record continue to skip and stay where you are. Some people are totlly content with being alone. Maybe that’s your calling card. Just try your best not to say men don’t find you attractive because the ones who actually do find you hot, you sh!t on in the process.

    • Apollo says:

      Men find you repulsive because you WANT them to find you repulsive. Isn’t that how you like it based on what you’ve posted? Nothing wrong with being alone if that’s what you truly want. Femininity and women’s liberation have greatly contributed to the demise of the modern man, so maybe it’s better for you to stay grounded. You don’t treat men of different heights with equal fairness anyways, but you expect the same rights and freedoms men have?

      Enjoy your stash of toys though. Maybe you could have a change of heart and search the porn sites with a suitable male partner LOL! FYI Jessica, I like my women, nice, natural, curvy and clean from a purely physical standpoint. Taller than me is better but not a requirement like most women. A few extra pounds isn’t a big deal to me, and for most guys it really isn’t either. Women make their own weight more of an issue than it already is because “bitch picking” against other girls is a booming business. There’s always one girl who’s gonna hate another girl for being a few pounds lighter than the rest and she gets most of the attention from the guys. Now she hates everyone, short guys in particular, and takes her frustrations out on these same men who she deemed unqualified and unnattractive.

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @Jessica:

      Jessica says:
      February 9, 2012 at 6:53 am
      “I’m not arguing point by point with ANYONE (hint! Hint!).”

      2short4u:
      Lol.

      One may feign that only the reluctance to protect a stance is the reason for capitulation, but it is rarely sufficient concealment for the inability to hold a clearly indefensible position.

      Jessica says:
      February 9, 2012 at 6:53 am
      “Tall women are in a bad situation aaaaannnnnddddd so are short men( I have to throw in depending on locality …because it’s MY reality)!”

      2short4u:
      After repeated demonstration of its ignorance of the disparity of both prevalence and magnitude of application between “shorter men intolerance” (people actually post this in no uncertain terms) versus “taller women intolerance” (come on, find us even ONE instance online), one continues to apply this obfuscation.

      Mantra like that is an indication of denial (in particular, an inability to accept that one’s concepts are based in fallacy). This is important as it illustrates how irrational ideas are often held to keep one from dealing with real truths.

      Incidentally, applying the “my reality” caveat is essentially the “in my opinion” disclaimer. If this were allowed, we could validate just about anything.

      One can find “tall women are marginalized” blogs online. However, how many of those threads do you find being hijacked by “shorter men” talking about their challenges? Not a lot (if at all.) In contrast, it is common to find posters (usually women) flooding “shorter men intolerance” threads with the usual dismissals, digressions, and bashing (we’ll cover this last action in a moment.)

      Do think about the reasons why one has to come here and essentially attempt to downplay this “no shorter men need apply” online phenomenon.

      Jessica says:
      February 9, 2012 at 6:53 am
      “I think it’s ok, sometimes I get the hurt feelings of ‘why are you single’ & I simply answer honestly ‘men find me repulsive’ then people ( usually fat girls/ who I don’t hate on by the way ask questions)… So now I say “because that’s how I like it, men are body obsessed m***** f****** and I like to be alone” then they seem ok with my answer!! “

      2short4u:
      OK. On to the “bashing.”

      Whether one couches the denigration as an appeasement to other women or not, this was just a way to introduce a denigration levied at men. One can attempt to obscure this by clever “algebraic” couching of the ridicule, but like that mathematic counterpart, written concepts can be re-arranged back to their core meaning… In this case, it reduces down to lightly concealed “bashing.”

      As “designed,” men have an affinity for healthy minds, bodies and spirits. It is likely no different for women when it comes to men. As far as bodies go, the height of them is generally non sequitur to health: “must be taller than average height” is purely a construct of social conditioning.

      In contrast, poor maintenance of one’s physical, mental, and spiritual well-being is essentially voluntary and create physical products and abstract personas that fall into the “undesirable” states. (There are mitigating circumstances such as incarceration, armed conflict, etc. but those are out-of-scope within this discussion.)

      Having an affinity for healthy packages is wholly different from restricting further involvement with a man who falls under a certain height.

      Jessica says:
      February 9, 2012 at 6:53 am
      “Porn, media, & plastic surgery has made men more unrealistic & creepy than ever!”

      2short4u:
      Pornography is to a sexual relationship as a spicy side dish is to a healthy meal. On their own, they rarely provide adequate nutrition and really only offer some satiation of appetite.

      However, if one is hungry and there’s nothing else to be found, that side dish will likely be gobbled up (and you will still crave a proper “home-cooked” meal.)

      Does it make creepier men creepier? Probably. But that’s no different than a bag of salty snacks making an unhealthy body unhealthier. In moderation as well as in support of a proper diet, that tasty extra really adds to the enjoyment of life. A little salt and grease isn’t a bad thing. Creeps will be creeps regardless of what’s on the menu.

      Do pornography and the media in general make men more unrealistic? Well, to be “realistic” we have to also look at the other side of the equation. Expectations of one’s “buying power” would only become more unrealistic if the item in demand is perceived to be more obtainable. Hence, it is more likely that the impression of the relative availability of attractive women is what determines the expectation of what can be courted.

      Pornographic media has been around a long time. So too has idealized carnations of women in the media. If the fantasies push a notion that some regular guy can attract a “ten” then, it sure raises the expectations.

      If anything, the men in porn in the 1970’s were far more “average” (aside from size of certain parts of course) than the low BMI counterparts today. Go back further, and the males in porno were very “normal.” Today, most of the male porn stars have low BMI and appear to be better-than-average looks (and length). The women aren’t portrayed to be any more “accessible” to the average guy and therefore pornography is unlikely making average guys more “unrealistic.”

      However, popular culture does it more than pornography. The typical TV couple is usually a very attractive woman with a normal guy (with few of them being shorter men or men of visible minority by the way.)

      Jessica says:
      February 9, 2012 at 6:53 am
      “Men never liked me!! I will tell you though my teen daughter ( who is short ) is held against impossible standards too!!!”

      2short4u:
      There’s a lot more to you than just your height. However, to shorter men, that’s all a lot of women online see to block him from further consideration. On another blog, perhaps we can discuss the dynamics of your assertion, but this blog is still about the intolerance for shorter men.

      Your teenage daughter may be measured against many exaggerated standards. This does speak to the irrationally competitive nature of younger women, but unless some of those standards are related to an involuntary and immutable trait, (and manifest so deeply,) it does not have much in common with the intolerance to shorter men.

      Jessica says:
      February 9, 2012 at 6:53 am
      “Have fun on your porn sights alone! Us girls will be busy shopping! Peace!”

      2short4u:
      Why does one go out of their way to draw attention to the presumption that their opposition are “alone” (let alone surfing pornographic sites)? Poking fun at a perceived quandary betrays an agenda to harm others rather than consoling them.

      Ridicule is rarely the herald of compassion. This doesn’t support the notion of “Tall women are in a bad situation aaaaannnnnddddd so are short men”, since you would think that would create at least a little empathy.

  86. Jessica says:

    Apollo,
    I never said I would be offended if a shorter man approached me. What I have said is that they don’t! Would I date a short man? I’ve explained, I don’t think so, BUT don’t know!!!! Why? I am, as I’ve explained a very inexperienced girl/woman (I never know what to call myself…WOMAN mmm soooo old now!). I would be very flattered if any man, ANY asked me out!!! Would I date them? Quite possibly not, I’ve waited this long I can wait forever! That is not against short men however. There are tall men aplenty I would not date!!!!!!!!! Trust me! I never dreamed I would be this old and never have found a relationship.
    I do not want to be repulsive, I often feel that way.
    I AM NOT A Feminist? My dream has always been to be a wife and mother! I love to bake, cook, clean, take care of others, organize, shop, get pampered, take care of children….. I work because I have to. I am a single mother through unconventional methods because… I longed to be a mother since childhood! When I was little I wanted to be a princess or a mommy….. like any other girl! MMMMM :( I’m crying!!!!) I cry daily!
    Toys…… (I never mentioned them)? I do like to play with Little Pet Shop toys and on occasion Barbies. Is that what you were referring to?
    I was mentioning porn as it is making boys/ men think women/ girls are sex objects with perfection in all physical areas. I do not know, I don’t watch it! I’m a nice girl…. WOMAN ( getting close to old lady :).
    Sorry for putting any of my opinions in the world. I’m obviously a lonely person :(….

  87. Jessica says:

    2 short 4 u,
    I am clearly not as smart, verbally gifted (or full of big words as it were), or tech savvy as you. You are clearly superior in arguments sensical or not? OH YOU ALPHA U!!!!
    LOL back..
    I can tell you….. do the research. Pretend for a day you are a manic, depressed lonely tall woman/girl and you will find cruel sights like Bella Petite, Why Men Prefer Small Women and so on. Look on tallwomen.org, Google why men prefer small women, pretend to be a tall woman & see if you get responses on a dating sight, or just pretend to be a woman & check out the height caps. It is there…. LOOK FOR IT (if you are so inclined). Perhaps it is not as verbal, perhaps because there are few tall women and quite a lot of short men!!!!!
    I’m sure you will disagree! You do that well! HAHA
    My “reality caveat” is because I live with a largely hispanic population and… the norm here is SHORT period!!!! I realize by region short men may be less datable and tall women more so.
    My REALITY is where I live. Are you moving me somewhere new to prove your point? I’m waiting……..I’m packing right now…
    I think tall women have hijacked YOUR “issue” because tall women are few… They can also be (from what I’ve seen on line) vey closed to reality!!!! They are so busy trying to hope it isn’t so, they get mad when they hear negatives that apply to them. There is no sisterhood amongst us!
    I think AND SYMPATHIZE that “NO SHORT MEN IS CRAZY” amongst short women.
    Tall women have their own issues and societal norms really are against us and you in terms of pairing. Sympathy though I have! (LOL YODA? CREEPY)…
    I suppose the porn thing was off base (short & tall men/ boys are overusing it as it is too readily available). This is not a height issue. I brought it up as I was having a “sympathy day” with my daughter & her friends. I do think men (and boys specially) need to get more reality checked!!!! BUT you are right it’s a different subject.
    Media is a problem, but who can even think through all that? I could fill page with that BUT I won’t since I’m hijacking tour “private space”…… LOL HAHA
    Short men….. I think you should be my comrades/ homies/ friends…. But I guess that’s not the way of it. I never meant to be opposition!
    I hope you all find lovely, sweet, women to spend your lives with. Women are really uncomplicated! It shouldn’t be hard……

    • Anon says:

      Jessica,

      I’m sorry to hear you plight and I feel for you. I would think a lot more shorter men would ask you out if this discrimination against us was less common.

      Think about where we’re coming from: the impression a lot of us have is that ALL of you prefer taller men (that’s not true of course but that’s the experience/impression most of have). Thus, if the majority of shorter-than-us girls won’t give us a chance, our perspective leads us to assume that above average height women won’t either. Yes, it’s a self-defeating internal arguement, but nobody likes being rejected/cheated on/humiliated, and if women do it enough to us, well, let’s just say we’re more likely to hedge our chances on a girl our height in the hopes she’s one of those rare gems that actually means it when she says she thinks “humor and personality” are what she’s looking for in a man, and isn’t too concerned about one’s height.

      Consequentially, (and this is my issue) a lot of us are also less experienced in flirting so we may not even be realizing you’re flirting with us (or only realize it on our way home from the bar when the chance to exchange numbers has passed). So if you see a guy whose shorter than you that you might fancy, don’t get discouraged! Just flirt a little more aggressively. As a woman, you don’t have to put yourself as far out as we men are supposed to go.

      Finally in regards to your daughter…. Well, keep in mind she’s dealing with teenage boys. They know what they want as much as she does!

      • Jessica says:

        That was a nice comment, & I swore I’d never hijack this again… Wow
        I apologize.,,

      • Anon. says:

        You’re very welcome.

        We’re all in the same boat, there’s no need to be splashing each other and filling it up with more water. Besides, even angry dialogue can lead to some insightful conclusions from time to time and if you got something out of it in the end, concider yourself the “lucky” one! :)

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @Jessica:

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “2 short 4 u, I am clearly not as smart, verbally gifted (or full of big words as it were), or tech savvy as you. You are clearly superior in arguments sensical or not? OH YOU ALPHA U!!!! LOL back..”

      2short4u:
      We address the post and not the poster.

      It is conceivable that you possess vastly superior cognitive, comprehensive and analytical skills. However, neither your intellectual prowess nor my own are the targets of assessment: It is the our arguments. If you arguments are weak (or essentially absurd) they can and will be exposed to be so.

      Attempting to dismiss rebuttal purely based on presentation?

      We use whatever words are appropriate. However, your position crumbles not because of the articulacy of subsequent critique. They tumble down, as expected, by the fragile nature of its faulty construction atop a poor foundation.

      Being an alpha male may mean that we may feel little remorse for any collateral damage to your ego, but such is the nature of most sports.

      Participation is voluntary; as is offering up ramshackle arguments based on those fallacious foundations. However, having such weak defences free of confrontation (much less surviving a match with some semblance of dignity) is not your privilege.

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “I can tell you….. do the research. Pretend for a day you are a manic, depressed lonely tall woman/girl and you will find cruel sights like Bella Petite, Why Men Prefer Small Women and so on. Look on tallwomen.org, Google why men prefer small women, pretend to be a tall woman & see if you get responses on a dating sight, or just pretend to be a woman & check out the height caps. It is there…. LOOK FOR IT (if you are so inclined).”

      2short4u:
      As we have already noted in a direct reply to you, this blog is specifically in regards to the intolerance of shorter men on dating sites. If you wish to expand on the challenges of taller women you have every opportunity to go to those pages and enlighten all who yearn to hear about it.

      To come to this blog and repeatedly attempt to commandeer it as a monologue on the dating issues of taller women (actually, YOUR OWN and admittedly “reality caveat” biased issues) is really nothing more than a campaign of harassment. In fact, you have yet to come up with even one shred of evidence that men actually post “no women taller than xx need apply.”

      If the “height caps” are there, we are certain you would have already posted some links (we already did for “curly hair”, but do not expect others to do your homework for you.)

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “Perhaps it is not as verbal, perhaps because there are few tall women and quite a lot of short men!!!!! I’m sure you will disagree! You do that well!”

      2short4u:
      People disagree with you because your assertions are incorrect. Whether we do it well (or not) is irrelevant.

      As far as the relative population of much taller-than-average women and much shorter-than-average men, it is unlikely that they are dissimilar. Considering that a 5-11 woman (which falls in the outlier group) is about an inch taller than the average man (it’s an average, so there are many men hovering an inch or two either way), she will basically see eye-to-eye with a lot of men.

      As many have mentioned, most men have no issue with that.

      Hence, the “few tall women” that you speak of do not face the same level of challenge that shorter men do in the online dating market. Come up with a few links to men’s profiles that say otherwise and you may have some credibility. Until then, you’ve pretty much surrendered that integrity by continuing this campaign of obfuscation instead of addressing the topic (as well as the expected retreat into ad hominem.)

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “HAHA My ‘reality caveat’ is because I live with a largely hispanic population and… the norm here is SHORT period!!!! I realize by region short men may be less datable and tall women more so. My REALITY is where I live. Are you moving me somewhere new to prove your point? I’m waiting……..I’m packing right now…

      2short4u:
      Lol…. And there in lays the problem with “it’s all about me.”

      Remember that word, “CONTEXT”? What we referenced in the “in my opinion” excuse was how it uses a skewed data set to justify a claim. Your “reality” does not address the topic (and doesn’t even share the same dilemma that shorter men face since you could actually CHANGE your locale.)

      “I’m packing right now”… There’s that straw man argument again.

      Contrary to what you think, this topic or this blog is not all about YOU. It is about the challenges facing shorter men in the online dating cyberspace. It’s not about the challenges of taller women in the online dating cyberspace even if it can be shown to be the same (which it isn’t anywhere near.) It’s not even about me; it is about… well, do I really have to repeat it?

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “I think tall women have hijacked YOUR ‘issue’ because tall women are few… They can also be (from what I’ve seen on line) vey closed to reality!!!! They are so busy trying to hope it isn’t so, they get mad when they hear negatives that apply to them. There is no sisterhood amongst us! I think AND SYMPATHIZE that ‘NO SHORT MEN IS CRAZY’ amongst short women. Tall women have their own issues and societal norms really are against us and you in terms of pairing.”

      2short4u:
      Sorry, but this is not MY “issue”. I choose to confront bullying regardless of what the underlying topic is. Recently, I was on a thread about game rigging in professional sports. That was not MY “issue” either, but the bullies there reacted much in the same way you do here. Incidentally this thread actually came up on a “match” search (Google casts a pretty wide net sometimes.)

      It’s not even MY blog. I am a guest here just as you are.

      Why do some people hijack threads?

      You may not even realize that hijacking a thread is a form of bullying. How would you react to someone taking over your mother-daughter “sympathy day” with their own agenda? Not only that; what if they continued to demand the spotlight even after you have carefully explained that the “sympathy day” was focused on your issues (which was clearly defined on the banner above the front door?)

      Be honest. Realize that what you are doing is… bullying.

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      Sympathy though I have! (LOL YODA? CREEPY)… I suppose the porn thing was off base (short & tall men/ boys are overusing it as it is too readily available). This is not a height issue. I brought it up as I was having a “sympathy day” with my daughter & her friends. I do think men (and boys specially) need to get more reality checked!!!! BUT you are right it’s a different subject.

      2short4u:
      No. That is a deflection.

      We pointed out that fact that you deliberately chose to highlight the idea that the opposition (men) may be alone and surfing porn: that doing so betrays a theme to strike out at men (particularly, shorter men) by belittlement. Porn was not criticized for being a different subject.

      However, it was pointed out that Porn can enhance relationships, but is rarely an adequate substitute for real human interaction. It also is unlikely to be the cause of a perceived rise in unrealistic expectations of men in general.

      Incidentally, it “objectifies” women as much as professional sports “objectifies” players. That is to say that the “objectification” disparagement of porn is more a Puritan response to vilify it rather than to understand it’s natural role in the human condition. We do not think of chefs as “only good for cooking,” so we shouldn’t think of porn stars as “only good for sex.” (Nor should a rise in cooking programs raise any expectation that everyone must be a chef.)

      However, as the experience on this thread is showing, expanding the mind of others is not an easy task when there are really other agendas.

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “Media is a problem, but who can even think through all that? I could fill page with that BUT I won’t since I’m hijacking tour ‘private space’…… LOL HAHA Short men….. I think you should be my comrades/ homies/ friends…. But I guess that’s not the way of it.

      2short4u:
      Again, this is not MY private space. Please petition the blog owner if you feel that this thread should be re-titled.

      Anyone can “think” through the media. It’s a matter of choice.

      Naturally, it’s a lot easier on a foundation of adequate self-esteem. It’s the lack of a good self-image that the media exploits. Young girls are particularly susceptible to this since the need to “fit in” is very strong in that group.

      Instead of raging against the idealized image that girls are expected to emulate, it may be better to fortify self-esteem by encouraging achievement in all aspects of one’s life. This includes understanding and working through personal weaknesses (something that the “touchy-feely” crowd tends to avoid when they say “everyone is special in their own way”… gag.) By confronting inner demons, people mature. Suppressing them only fosters them into bigger ones that continue to plague them in adulthood.

      …and “sympathy”?

      I doubt if most “shorter men” are looking for “sympathy.” They are probably looking for what all people want: a chance to play in the game. They are definitely not looking for condescending attitudes either, so if one is extending their hand in such a way, do not expect too much of a heroine’s reception. They are definitely not looking for “pity” (Interestingly, this is a common projection of those who actually are.)

      Jessica says:
      February 10, 2012 at 6:11 am
      “I never meant to be opposition! I hope you all find lovely, sweet, women to spend your lives with. Women are really uncomplicated! It shouldn’t be hard……”

      2short4u:
      It doesn’t appear that anyone has seriously felt that there is a barrier from an enigmatic nature in women. That is another straw man argument. In fact, the height intolerance attitude has been explained very clearly.

      Again, it is the projection of a perceived lack of self-worth amongst one’s peers. This lowered self-esteem can often create a need to compensate by boasting that one is holding out for a trophy. Whether one actually has the ability to attract and maintain that trophy is a big part of the denial that surrounds this type of behaviour. There’s nothing mysterious about that.

      It’s not as hard outside of the Internet, but the challenges you hear about here are certainly a lot more than what those who promote the prejudice want everyone to know.

      So… if you sincerely do not intend to be “opposition” then…

      Practice what you now preach.

      Don’t do one thing (make comments about “surfing porn alone”, “HA HA short men”, etc.) and say another (“I have sympathy”.) If one has genuinely become appreciative of the much greater challenge that these shorter men face in the online dating world, it’s a step in the right direction towards improving the social experience for everybody.

      • bruce says:

        While 2Short is correct in stating that THIS is not the forum for disseminating Tall Girl Bias, I couldn’t help but test Jessica’s ‘theory:’

        Creating a fake account on Match, as a 5’10’ 25-35 year old women, I get 2000+ “Mutual” matches (meaning they are looking for someone with your stats). Changing “my” height to 5′ 3″…I get…..2000+ matches.

        Now, I have done this on my own profile. With correct height (5’4″) I get about 70 mutual matches. Change that to 5’10” and i get….wait for it….yup +2000.

  88. Jessica says:

    Wow that’s interesting (the statistics by Bruce.. What state do u live in?????)no sarcasm! I never meant to be a bully , I won’t post here again! I thought height related issues were height related issues? Peace & love!

    • Confused Ryu says:

      I agree with what Bruce is saying. I’ve been on some of these dating sites, and it’s ridiculous what I’ll have to go through just have someone be attracted to me. I’m used to my inbox being full of cobwebs. I feel like I’m waiting on that pension check to come in, but it never really comes.

      As a guy I want women to make me feel like a man, not feel like some pet a petting zoo. All those little comments like…”he’s adorable and he’s cute” doesn’t scream that I’m attractive. It makes me feel like a freak show in a circus. I can’t be the only one that feels this way?

      Someone said something right on the money earlier in thread. Just because women are short doesn’t mean that they want to date short men. Talk about adding insult to injury!

    • bruce says:

      Washington, Seattle area, so its not a small sample.

      • Ila says:

        Yes but the truth is Seattle has a lot of tall women & few short men. Statistically it has the tallest people in the USA.. So you like me are in this position due to environment. I live in NM…. Only short people & me … Let’s trade?

      • bruce says:

        Seattle is no more statistically taller than any other US metropolitan area…actually, it could be shorter than say, minnisota, but by now, its all probably leveled out. And given that we have a fairly large asian population, i would think we are leaning down…not up.

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      @ “Ila”

      Ila says:
      February 15, 2012 at 5:43 am
      Yes but the truth is Seattle has a lot of tall women & few short men. Statistically it has the tallest people in the USA.. So you like me are in this position due to environment. I live in NM…. Only short people & me … Let’s trade?

      2short4u:
      Lol. There in lays the problem with disingenuous positions.

      It’s easy to figuratively clasp one hand on the lapel of a lab coat and hold a clipboard in the other to state “facts” like “Statistically, it [Seattle] has the tallest people in the USA.” It’s a whole lot harder to support such a claim. Even it were so, the impact of this “statistical” variation would be dubious.

      Let’s assume that this is due to a much larger Hispanic population that this discrepancy occurs between a typical NM city and Seattle, WA. Statistically, (and we CAN support this with actual citations), the different in average height of the two groups are about 2.5 inches. Yes. A “massive” two inches on average. The difference is a little more for the males but still not much past 2.5 inches. Hence the non-Hispanic population is on average about 2.5 inches taller.

      Citation? Here you go: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/bodymeas.htm (Have a look at pages 14 and 16)

      Let’s now assume that NM is entirely Hispanic (it isn’t, it’s actually about 46.3% Hispanic, while WA is 11.2% http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0018.pdf). That would mean that all the men are “on average” 2.5 inches shorter. However, the truth is that that a little less half the population is Hispanic. Therefore, the population of eligible candidates would be only half that of regions that had no Hispanics (nothing against Hispanics as this is purely looking at US based height statistics and really speaks more to diet in early years than of ethnicity.)

      What does this tell us?

      This tells us that the ratio of taller men in NM is about half that of Seattle at the very “worst.” This is a far cry from the statistics for shorter men that Bruce revealed in his experiment.

      The cut-off was 2,000 so even assuming that the total was exactly 2,000 the difference was enormous. The notably taller women had the same online opportunities as the shorter women or the average height man. However, the notably shorter man had about 30 times less. In reality, that 2,000 cut-off probably hides a ratio much greater than that.

      So, what of the quotation of dubious (and at best, inapplicable) “statistics”?

      Invented facts are often used in rearguard actions once suspicious assertions are challenged (as are multiple avatars to bolster the true size of alliance.) It is should be clear to even the most neophyte observer that the online dating challenges faced by taller women are not anywhere that of shorter men.

      While we continue to understand and empathize with the bias that taller women face, it’s already been clearly shown that it is far from the level of discrimination that shorter men have to deal with. When this campaign of obfuscation carries on in spite of earnest explanation, assessing the motives of the poster is both within reason and decorum: These continued attempts at roughly equating the online dating trials of the taller woman to that of the shorter man only serve to reinforce the apparent insincerity of the plaintiff (at the very least in accepting this difference.)

      • B says:

        Comments on my blog now I have citations. This, I did not expect.

      • Ila says:

        Short man you argue a lot! I guess you want us gross tall females to go away so you short men can wallow in pity, without us unwanted giants! I wallow too, so I’m not judging! I don’t have multiple avatars! I’m me! I’m not a scientist or census taker, …just a tall lady who thinks some shit no one cares about! If my statistics suck…oopsi! I got a lot of response so I talked! I talk when I feel like it online, in person not so much! I avoid contact, hang with gays & look at the floor that is what I exel at? If some other tall ladies feel the same it is a coincidence!

      • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

        @Ila:

        Ila says:
        February 17, 2012 at 1:41 am
        “Short man you argue a lot! I guess you want us gross tall females to go away so you short men can wallow in pity, without us unwanted giants! I wallow too, so I’m not judging!”

        2short4u
        Lol. The irony of the response is just too precious.

        You claim to not “judge”, yet the very statement “Short man you argue a lot!” contains two specific “judgments”. The first, “Short man” is unsubstantiated (the moniker is “2short4u” which does not offer any actual height.) to conclude that it is means “short” (as in shorter than average) is, you guessed it, a judgement (and really a retreat to ad hominem too.)

        The second would be that the “short man” argues “a lot.” What is “a lot” if not a judgment? We may be thorough in addressing issues, but that is only in response to the repetitive nature of the misinformation being cast upon the masses here.

        We neither suggested you to being “gross” nor asked that you “go away” for being tall females. However, we did say that repeatedly hijacking this blog with commentary about the dating challenges of taller women (which has many a forum that you can participate in) was harassment. Most people here share in our encouragement of insightful commentary and welcome constructive dialogue on this blog’s topic. However, providing conjured facts to support off-topic claims is hardly either.

        Hence, your “judgement” that we do not wish you to post is based on a false accusations and is clearly a disambiguation in a weak attempt to discredit your the opposition.

        We have already mentioned that most “shorter men” are not asking for pity, and by inference, they are not wallowing in it either. We leave it to the readers to determine whom, if anyone has been encouraging “pity” for their own predicament.

        Ila says:
        February 17, 2012 at 1:41 am
        “I don’t have multiple avatars! I’m me! I’m not a scientist or census taker, …just a tall lady who thinks some shit no one cares about!”

        2short4u
        We provide the rope, but we do not manipulate into the proverbial noose: that we leave up to others.

        Since one chooses to use their own life experience as support for their position, dissection of such is fair game. One suggests a scientific nature by providing “statistics” as well as claiming educational status, (see this very blog… Ila says: October 9, 2011 at 3:38 am, “…I have a a masters degree and teach dyslexic children”) when convenient. Yet now, one curiously creates distance from these claims this when it is not to their advantage.

        Contradiction is a strong indicator of insincerity. Whether you are an avatar of another, or if any of your stories are legitimate is left for everyone to “judge” independently.

        What we do draw attention to: is how many camouflage by altering writing styles to give the illusion of alternate personalities (over-compensating with it when it seems necessary.) There are other instances where specific “facts” vary (which is why a lot of money is spent on continuity editors for television series… and even they slip up from time to time.)

        Profess to be whatever you wish. I cannot control the “judgement” of the audience at large (nor can you as much as you think you can.)

        Ila says:
        February 17, 2012 at 1:41 am
        “If my statistics suck…oopsi! I got a lot of response so I talked!“

        2short4u
        How flippant one is about the veracity of their conjured “statistics” cannot hide it’s original intent to create a false impression of authenticity. The critical issue is in how one initially couches it as reliable fact, but quickly dismisses it as an oversight once it is shown to be suspect. Making up statistics basically eliminates ANY credibility to your arguments. Trying to dismiss it as a minor gaff only goes further and does the same to one’s persona. So yes, “oopsi” indeed.

        Ila says:
        February 17, 2012 at 1:41 am
        “I talk when I feel like it online, in person not so much! I avoid contact, hang with gays & look at the floor that is what I exel at? If some other tall ladies feel the same it is a coincidence!”

        2short4u
        Barring coercion or obsessive-compulsive tendencies, that one posts (or talks) when they feel like it is pretty much a given (at least until the moderator has had enough.)

        Yes, it is a “coincidence”. Lol. Same height. Same locale. Same child/children outside of traditional methods story… right. Coincidence. Oh wait… one of the avatar uses “text speak” U know wut I mean. Oh… yes… It just can’t be the same peeps.

        On Feb 15, it was normal writing style; a day later it’s back to that “text talking”…

        Ever watch that series “Lie to me”? Over-compensating to camouflage, yes. Coincidence? Not so much.

        At any rate, the topic of this blog is still “Women vs. Short Guys” and is NOT “The dating challenges of Tall Women who spend most of their social time with the Alternative Lifestyle Community and therefore conveniently limit their exposure to Potential Partners.” Feel free to suggest that the Blog-master change it to your liking.

  89. Bell says:

    I read this sad but true blog for a while. Why? I’ve been in a friend and romance situation for a while and finally asked my girl to date me properly. She said, “I love you, we are so made for eachother but you are too short for me and it can’t be that way, YOU KNOW”. I never knew that was the problem. This girl is one inch taller than me, one stupid inch? We’ve been friends and hookups for four years, and that’s the problem? I’m 5’5 by the way. What the ….?

    • M says:

      Exactly…. No offense to your height but I completely agree with you. It’s these women that balk at seriously 1,2 or 3 inches. For some seriously screwed reason women think those 1, 2 or 3 inches is oh so much better and he must be that much more protective all cause of a lousy 1, 2 or 3 inches. BS. Yeah maybe 6 to 10 inches taller they might be a tad stronger etc… But 1, 2 or 3 inches that some women balk at those inches are being way over to petty BS… Those are the type of women that usually nothing in life is ever right and are constant complainers. Or something like that.

    • volonte says:

      It is because of “what will her friends think?” They can’t be seen dating no short willy of a guy in their eyes, not mine. It sucks and is unfair I am sure of it.

  90. M says:

    I think what men are so p*ssed with women over is a lot of women being over picky with men’s height and by overly picky were talking women balking over a lousy 2 or 3 effin inches in their height. Like 5’10 guy and women balk over wanting this ultra specific must be 6′ at least guy. BS, 2 effin inches is seriously not going to make that much difference. That’s what pi**es men off so much are those ultra catty, picky women that seriously think like 2 inches in a man’s height makes a huge difference. Just like a commenter said on here “Height, apparently, subconsciously offers that. It better be subconscious, because I’m 6’2″ and I’ll tell you right now ladies, I ain’t protecting you from shit.” What if your 6’2″ is a complete wuss? Yeah he might be tall but he could be all gangly, not much of any muscle and like the commenter said he is going to protect you from shit. So now what women? You gonna get all salty and pi**y just cause oh Mr. 6’2 guy didn’t protect you? Besides it always sounds like when women say oh they feel “protected or need protection. So then you ladies that balk and give the lame a** excuses about men’s height obviously then are talking about you need bodyguards are for when you break up with him since you want “protection”. Why the he** can’t you protect your own self? Seriously women there is not much difference in men that are 5’9″, 5’10”, 5’11” and 6′. Um yeah like 2 or 3 lousy inches is oh sooooo much more protective. BS!!!!

    • bruce says:

      5’9″, 5’10″…not even that…who here among the 6’+ range wants to meet a pissed off Bruce Lee (at 5’6″) or even Chuck Norris (5’8″).
      The most laughable is that, with the typical restrictions women put on their prospects…they’d miss out on Brad Pitt (5’10” and that’s a stretch…some say its 5’9″…see, even Brad has to lie about his height). Absurd.

      • Bell says:

        Well, I’m now making the moves on this girls 5’9 friend & she seems fine with it. She’s prettier too. If Clooney can be shorter, the rest of us can too. Being shorter is fine if your woman looks like Kiebler!

  91. Tall Lady Perspective says:

    Interesting how much of a stir this post created. I’m writing this blub to the good people of the internet as it seems like some insight from open minded tall women is needed. Some background to aid my viewpoint:

    I’m a tall 29 year old. 6’1. Have been since the 8th grade. Yes, this created awkward moments. Speaking of Middle School, I literally got cut from the 8th grade basketball team if that is any indicator of my athletic abilities…more of an artist in a volleyball players body. Let’s just say I was not a dude magnet. Think Joan Cusack in any 80’s John Hughes movie. Got called “Too Tall” for a few years & everything that goes with it. What do people with awkward formative years do? Well, they use that time to grow senses of humor, develop unique interests, or become really nice. Thankfully, times have changed, I grew into my own, and am a decently attractive, successful adult.

    What does any of my self-rambling have to do with short men? It seems like we’ve probably lived similar scenarios. When thinking of the general population, is it going to be easier for a 5’2 woman of similar attractiveness to get a date? Absolutely. Without question. But seriously, no one can manipulate how the world operates. I am what I am, and I’m comfortable with that, and realize my height has helped shape who I am. I would have a completely different personality if I was that 5’2 girl, and, well, I want mine. If some dude can’t muster up the confidence to be seen beside a taller than average woman, I’d rather not know him.

    Most of the men I have dated have been shorter than me. Why? Because they’re attractive, funny, and their confidence to go out and pursue a woman that is much taller than him is sexy as hell, intriguing, and unexpected. You get catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

    To the shorter men of the world: Be yourself. Be confident. Have fun. The ladies will come, both short and tall.

    Oh, and these guys are right about height not equating in protectiveness. Both my 5’8 and 5’9 ex boyfriends could easily take out a guy I just started dating that’s 6’2. Makes you wonder..

    Good luck everybody!

  92. Jonathan Brooks says:

    Heightism: On Match.com in the UK I recognised the heightism within my first half hour of searching. Being in the fortunate/unfortunate position of joining on a whim ( I was drunk) and having paid the money and not really that desperate to date anyone ( realised once I sobered up) I have now taken to writing slightly scathing profiles including such comments as:
    ” I am beginning to hate tall people,.. randomly mocking them on the street… and it’s all your fault… some of my best friends used to be tall !!”
    “I hate the outdoors and mainly stay in my room (where it is very dark); I am not a “fun-loving” person ( I prefer to seek out anti-fun situations and wallow in them); I hate to laugh (except at generic profiles that assume anyone doesn’t like the obvious things…. except me… apparently); I am not easy going; I don’t want to share lifes adventures with you; I don’t like cats; Your “star sign” doesn’t interest me; I AM NOT between 5″9 and 8″11; I don’t like cosy nights in with a glass of wine watching a girly movie; I am not honest or trustworthy and I am skint…most of the time….”
    ” Now if you have read my profile before, you will know how abhorrent I find the “heightism” that is rife on this site. Little , tiny, almost “Mini” women on here requesting at least 5″9 ers… grow up! ( pun intended)… How can we 5″7 and a halfers compete with the giants of the world… when even 5″1 ers request Goliath as a minimum requirement? Get off your high horses !”
    “It has come to my notice that I may have been a little unfair in my constant ramblings regarding the “heightism” on this site. In the past I have mentioned the unreal requirements demanded by, as I now lovingly refer to as.. “the 5”1 ers”. At one stage, having googled “ People who only like tall..” I was met, as previously recorded, by the heading “Tall People Have Problems Too…” which at the time made me laugh.. well if a sharp “HA” constitutes laughter. I have referred to the “Tall, Dark and Handsomes”…a group of people loved , apparently, the world over by a bunch of “Milk Tray” eating females… (IT WAS AN ADVERT… IT’S NOT REAL !!) And so I come to my point… an apology to all the “Talls but not your fault” people. However…You “ short birds”.. as my friend calls you… you have no other excuse except your inexplicable love of ridiculously tall heels… some heels apparently bigger than 8 inches…( I quote one lady of 5”1, having a minimum she will accept of 5”9… M’Lord)… Now the image of a “5”1er hobbling down the road to the pub, does offer some slight consolation and, dare I say, a modicum of hilarity.”
    My final word on the matter is just to refuse access to my profile to “heightists”

    Should I set up an anti-heightist society here in the UK?

  93. Chad says:

    For you slightly below average height dudes, I have one word for you. Hawaii. 5’6″ is about average here. You’ll still run into the odd heightest woman, but over 5’5″ seems to be good enough.

    Full disclosure, Im five four.

  94. just-me says:

    I might have a chance to come to Florida for studying, but I realize now it’s going to be a struggle because im barely 5’3. My face is fairly pretty but apparently that won’t help in any way. I’m quite shy and rarely talk to girls, but even the fact of being undesirable in case I mustered enough courage to approach somebody, is very depressing. I am from eastern europe and it seems most of the height related blogs and postings are made by americans and men from other english-speaking countries. if it going to be THIS bad.. I’d rather not go… Someone here has mentioned european women being less shallow…but sadly..coming there is not going to be possible anytime soon. This blog has really made me doubt all the expectations and admiration for american culture that has always seemed appealing to me.. But god..this discussion here would make anyone wonder -‘what the hell am I getting into?’ Granted, I haven’t had a GF here where I live either, but it breaks my heart reading your struggles people… It really does. I can’t believe american society is that biased against us especially given the fact that there’s a significant number of residents from latino/asian backgrounds who are not very tall and the country average being 5’9’5-10 (lower than in my country) does nothing but amaze – how can people be so damn shallow..

  95. Andromeda says:

    Wow you are all crazy! Short men go be nice gentlemen. Yeah taller men might not have to bother but if you do you’ll find great girls! Tall unhappy women I feel your pain. A lot of black men will kiss every inch, go hit one up!

    • Mario says:

      Hey Andromeda,

      Make sure your words of encouragement directed at your tall sisters includes the short and shorter black guys too! Your advice is an excercise in futility if you’re only referring specifically to the taller black guys.

      Any tall lady who shows a genuine interest in me, has no hangups about being taller or bigger than me and is mentally strong enough to deal with those fools who poke fun at our height difference deserves to be treated like a queen! Tall unhappy women need to look down and discover the world of shorter guys. There are lots of us that are attracted to you and your long legs, so you owe it to yourselves to keep a more open minded approach. There’s nothing wrong with chatting up a shorter guy and making the first move unless you are a staunch traditionalist who expects guys to approach first. If you don’t like short guys, that’s ok. Just don’t go hating on us when we ask you for a date.

      Andromeda, you are right about one thing. This short black man will gladly kiss every inch of a lovely tall woman, starting with her toes! Yummy!!

  96. atallchickwhohatesallofyou says:

    Girls only grow 1 to 2 inches after the onset of their periods. Most girls get their periods at age 10to 12 so yes most very tall women have extremely tall adolescents ! Boys hit puberty much later, hot the med journal, you really are not as informed as you think you are

    • 2Short4U_but_not_for_my_gal says:

      2Short4u:
      Lol.

      Even if your critics were really “not as informed as they think they are,” they are still a far more informed than you. Apparently not too difficult a feat as they cite genuine fact as the foundation of a solid position, instead of distorted or conjured ones to support falsehoods.

      Go check out the response to this on the thread where your reply actually belongs.

  97. June says:

    I used to be more sensitive and girly about my “preferences” for dating. I felt like it was cruel to not date obese people because they were fat. Then I actually dated someone who had been around 300 lbs and lost at least 50…the body under his shirt really upset me, especially because to avoid devastating him I couldn’t be honest about my distaste. I now see obesity as a deal-breaker, plus, I love the outdoors, and I can’t imagine getting someone that unhealthy to go backpacking with me. I haven’t had great experiences with short guys either, but I can think of one short guy I’ve kicked myself for not acting more interested in (he was extremely athletic, handsome and surprisingly kind). I think that I’ve been somewhat cursed growing up with brothers, action movies, and no one particularly feminine in my family. If I’m going to actually feel like a woman around a guy he has to have a certain manly presence and shorter guys just seem to have a harder time giving me that feeling. It’s not even the “surrounding” thing. I feel like when I (5’6″) can see over the top of someone’s head I should be opening doors for him. Unfortunately, it seems like the really athletic guys who most closely resemble the image I grew up with for an ideal male (Arnold Schwarzenegger…>.< yeah, I know it's ridiculous), are more interested in women who are feminine and passive. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that for all of the talk about discrimination and size-ism, height-ism etc….we are still talking about the primitive mind-body action of attraction. How many times have you met someone who was "good on paper" but had really weird mannerisms that tended to embarrass you in public or made you uncomfortable/annoy you in private? This person could easily be your good friend, but to imagine having a romantic relationship complete with sexual relations is impossible…or stupid. I met someone recently who I had a lot in common with, but there was absolutely no spark for me….then a few weeks later, I'm at a grocery store and I see a guy who made me feel like I'd just had a spell cast on me. It's not smart for anything but genetics, and it's not nice, and it's not fair, but it's life. I've been single for about 2 years since my most serious relationship finally ended, and I've resigned myself to staying that way if I don't get someone close to my ideal guy.

  98. NTK says:

    Biology tells us that men prefer beauty, youth and health and that women prefer wealth, power and status. Therefore, each gender is trying to find the best possible mate. Certainly, there is an emotional basis for love, romance and attachment. However, understanding what women genetically and, particularly in this culture, socially are looking for, we can understand women’s preference for taller men. On average, taller men hold better jobs and earn more money. Studies of children as well as adults indicate that given silhouettes of short and tall men, they choose taller silhouette as more honest and trustworthy.

    What are short men to do? Females clearly have a genetic and cultural preference for taller men. However, I believe that nothing in life is this simple. Shorter men may have to be willing to put in a little more effort than his taller counterpart. Think long term here: try and obtain a relatively lucrative college degree, a decent job and build as much wealth as possible. Take in interest in learning and your mind as well that of the female. Take up new hobbies and volunteer. Meeting a larger number of people would certainly better your chances of meeting the right woman for you. These activities will build your self-confidence and women will (and should) take note.

    At the end of the day, if women fail to be attracted to you, despite a 100% effort in being the best possible person you can be, then you may conclude that they are simply missing out on a great opportunity for a better life with you. Further, that they are not able to get past a simple genetic preference, given that they may have thousands of genetic tendencies and preferences, they probably aren’t very intelligent.

    • bruce says:

      NTK,
      I like and appreciate your closing sentiments, however, I just have to take everyone to task on this. When you say Women are genetically disposed to taller men…I have to say, wrong. Women are culturally disposed to taller men…genetically, they are disposed to the ‘alpha-male’. Not always the tallest, say among animals, just the fieriest, strongest and smartest. Its our CULTURE that gives us the assumption to that taller equals alpha.

      • NTK says:

        I see your point, however what I actually said was that women genetically and socially seek wealth, power and status in order to improve the chances of survival and quality of their offspring. I also said, in so many words, that tall men are more likely to attain wealth, power and status. Therefore, women are genetically and culturally attracted to taller men.

      • bruce says:

        Sorry to seem pedantic about it, but Height, wealth, etc…is NOT genetic…genetic is to strive for the alpha position. In societies without wealth for example (and there are some) wealth was not something that attracted women.

      • NTK says:

        How could it be possible for there to be a genetic component that says that all men strive to be the alpha male. There would be constant fighting and tension among males and much more conflict than currently exists. Some males are alpha, and some beta. Actually, some studies have indicated that its actually better for your health to be the beta male. Further, more men are beta males than alpha males. This is just some basic biology stuff.

  99. Kylie says:

    Men do say things like “if you were shorter you’d be hot”. They do. I’m just going to tell you. If I start a blog about tall women people will ignore it because A: it’s a rare condition B: tall women often can’t admit it’s hard C: shorten are actually pissed at their counterparts as are tall women.
    By dwarves I don’t mean short women I mean dwarves… Men have spinner fantasies about literal migets & dwarves (you know you do). I’m not just whining about snookies. Imagine being tall & no one short or tall fantasizes about you..

    • Feet still touching the ground says:

      @”A Kylie who…”
      Just as “A tall Chick” was told, try answering the challenges on the blog where they were issued. You’ll find the response to your posts there (http://itsnotamatch.com/2011/10/07/women-vs-short-guys-revisited/)

    • Apollo says:

      Who gave you this information about men fantasizing about midgets and dwarves? I certainly don’t. Why do I have strong feelings that you’re only speaking in reference to tall guys who date shorter women? I’m guessing that I can safely say my opinion of you means nothing because I’m not a man in your eyes? Short guys never count because it’s not like we should have an opinion about women in the first place right? We don’t measure up right?

      If we did, you wouldn’t be so quick to conclude this nonsense about guys dreaming about midgets and dwarves. Yes, there are guys who desire to be taller than the woman they are with and are attracted to shorter women. At the same token, you shouldn’t be surprised to know that some of us are turned on by long legs and being able to look up into the eyes of a taller woman. Many of us don’t care about your heels either. In fact lots of us encourage it. Those that don’t or have a problem with you in heels are weak. I think you’re just trying to find excuses for your own failures with men because you don’t like the men who probably find you hot.

      Tell me I’m wrong Kylie because I’ve always liked taller women and at the same time I don’t hate on the short ladies who just might find me attractive. If I see a taller woman in a group of ladies, my eyes immediately will focus on her. Tall women usually don’t like it when a short guy tries to lock eyes with her. She’s too interested in the tall guy who’s trying to lock eyes with the short girl. Not always the case but mostly it is what it is.

      Imagine being called a “boy” when you’re a grown man who’s earned the title of being called “man.” Imagine being treated like a little kid just because you don’t stand X amount of inches tall. Imagine being insulted or laughed at by a tall woman because you the shorter guy took the chance to talk to her in hopes that she’s not bothered by your height. Imagine being stamped with the short-man-syndrome disease all because you were raised to be an ambitious person who strives for excellence and the best things in life like other people.

      Don’t kid yourself or sell yourself short(no pun intended). There are lots of guys who adore taller ladies.

      • bruce says:

        One has to consider though, that taller men (i.e., above the “ideal” 5’10” plus) are generally less secure around taller women BECAUSE they are not used to it. Us wee folk have tons of experience with women who are taller. I asked around, and of my “peers” over half of their girl friends where as tall or taller than them. Of my poor vertically challenged friends (those over 5′ 10″) NONE have every dated a women taller.

        He’s a nut case, I give tom cruise credit for having the balls to date taller women…so, basically, if you are women over 5’10”, Here’s a tip….try BOLSTERING the ego of the poor 6+ footer you have your eye on…you might inject enough self esteem for him to overcome his insecurity.

  100. Mary says:

    I may be 5’2″ tall but that doesn’t mean I’m going to settle for a guy who’s 5’7″. Infact, everyone I’ve dated has been at least 6’3″, and that’s a requirement. I’m sick of these worthless hobbits crying on the internet trying to get someone to sympathize with them, and I’m sick of them approaching me thinking they might just have a chance because I’m short too. To all these pathetic shrimps: stop wasting everyone’s time, you know you’re disgusting and don’t deserve to live, but somehow some genetic defect has made you the way you are. No one cares about you. Suck it up and stop being a crybaby.

    • bruce says:

      LOL!….and just in case you are not a troll…guess where hobbits come from…yup…right there…in the mirror.
      Seriously, if your life is so sad, why not consider therapy.

      • Apollo says:

        Good Answer Bruce! I wonder if this chick Mary is really Rosa using an alias?! Sure sounds like it but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s another short lady with her own issues coming here to rant about short guys. She wouldn’t go out of her way just to post a hurtful message on a website that recognizes the associated difficulties short men have in this world.

        Shrimps? Hobbits? This is funny stuff! She wouldn’t call me a shrimp if I got her backside up and face down in the pillow that’s for sure LMAO!!!

        She shouldn’t talk so loudly if she’s only 5’2 my gosh LMAO!!! Women like her are often easy to spot. Weak as water, needy and clingy. I don’t regularly approach women shorter than my 5’6 self to begin with. I prefer ladies my height and taller but I never go to the extent of discarding shorter women with the same amount of animosity she has for short guys. There are lots of hot short women who date guys equally as short and some even shorter. Not all of them carry the same extreme distaste for short men. Some short women actually like being with a man who’s closer to her eye level.

        The taller ladies who date short men don’t need explanation as to why they date us either. Physical attraction is self-explanatory and most importantly these tall ladies are comfortable and confident in their own skin. Furthermore, the shorter guy’s height does not define her femininity like other women who adamantly need a taller guy to feel better about themselves.

        No decent man would put up with the ignorance that this woman is presenting here, even if he’s tall. Besides, the tall guys I know don’t date pigmy women with attitude. They date short women and tall women that are beautiful inside and out.

    • Quasimodos Cousin says:

      Wow. Those are really rabid, ugly things to say just over someone’s height. I think you have problem’s with your relationships and humanity in general, not just short people. And, in case no one has pointed it out to you, that attitude is just incredibly shallow.

  101. Jinx says:

    “I want a man who’s taller than me because I like to wear heels” comes back very often in online dating profiles…
    Apparently, shorter men are physically preventing these young ladies from enjoying their platform shoes. Like they somehow flip shit when they see them wearing heels and just scream “Noooooooo!”, jumping at them in slow-motion, like some kind of B-rated movie, grab their heels and try to gouge their eyes out with it. And what is the police doing about this? NOTHING! Unacceptable.
    Ladies, accept that most men shorter than you are confident enough and perfectly fine with you being taller.

  102. gen says:

    Haha well ima short guy but im fine with it…cuz if a girl dont want me then i sure dont want her either…I’ll just be laughing when her 6 foot bf leaves her…or worst get a 20pound slap in the face…

  103. Quasimodos Cousin says:

    I never lie about my height, age or weight. That’s me in my headshot. I’m not Brad Pitt, but not Quasimodo, either. If a woman is so shallow as to pass me over on those criteria, probably I wouldn’t have a high opinion of her anyway.

  104. sean_berglund@yahoo.com says:

    Thank you for posting this! At 6’2” you are definitely a tall male. Women on internet dating sites have no clue about how tall men are. They consider any man below 6’ to be short. Yet the world average male height is something like 5’7”. And the argument about protection? What is wrong with you idiots? Here are some examples of guys that can probably protect you… Manny Pacquiáo (perhaps the greatest pound-per-pound boxer, 5’6.5”). Al Pacino (The Freaking Godfather, 5’7”). Emitt Smith (record holder for total yards gained in NFL, 5’9”). Barry Sanders is even shorter at 5’8”. You’ve got a picture of Mel Gibson (Braveheart, 5’10”) up there. Ceasar Agustus (one of the most powerful men ever, maybe 5’9”). Why aren’t these guys above 6’? Come on ladies… Get a freaking clue about makes a man strong. BTW I am 5’8.5” myself and I have no problem attracting women in the real world, just on the internet.

  105. Ariel says:

    Tall men are definitely superior dating prospects and harder to come by. With so many similar dating profiles we have to filter the results somehow but in many cases physical parameters are much more flexible than they seem if the guy proves himself. I have to admit I set higher standards when dating online. There are just too many options otherwise.

    • bruce says:

      …i personally never stated that ALL males strive to be alphas…and striving also doesn’t mean succeeding…and we have a pretty large portion of conflict. Finally, because we are primarily wired to survive, compromising is also a human instinct. My point is to simply correct the assumption that genetically “tall equals alpha”…it does not. Its cultural and a relatively recent cultural artifact at that (100 or so years ago…6′ 5″ was considered “Freakish” not “Fabulous”). Its why a man’s height goes up one inch for every 5 million or so that he has.

  106. Eric Stone says:

    When someone thinks there’s literally enough of a difference between 5’5″ and 5’6″ to reject a guy for it, THAT’s when it gets ridiculous.

  107. political junkie says:

    Whoa. Lot of hateful things said from men and women! Starting with the first guy, who sounds like an internally homophobic closeted gay guy, because dude, it’s pretty clear, you hate women.
    And for one of the posters (same guy, different handle? Or just two very long winded posters? And yes, I admit this is a long post, but likely my only one) who answers point by point and who incessantly keeps calling one of the tall girls “shallow”. Uh, where’s your “evidence” for that? That is an opinion. Who gets to determine what is and isn’t “shallow”? There’s no statement of fact being made. It’s an opinion. If you want to be accurate, then say that “in my opinion you are shallow.” You”re entitled to an opinion, but stop trying to pass it off as a fact. It could be the opinion of everyone here, but it still doesn’t make it fact. I think he’s the same guy who wrongly claimed that you don’t see men, not even “gay men” put such restrictions in their personal ads. Such disingenuous “malarkey” as your veep would say. (I’m not American, nor a gay guy, either) I have read some of these ads and gay men and men in general DO very much discriminate in their personal ads….so enough with the holier than thou sH*t.. Don’t pretend you’ve read a lot of ads by men, when it’s clear you haven’t.

    And then there’s this other pseudo “high road poster” who cuts down another woman for not attacking the post but instead attacking the poster, She *was* way off base, But then he claims the high ground by only attacking the post but then goes on to hypocritically call one of the tall women a “b****” and a “c***”. Nice. And so attractive. Yuck.

    To the women who are using derogatory remarks about men who are under a certain height: you are as unattractive as the whiners and the “poor me, poor me, I am so short, and all women are evil and life is not fair” types. You’re all sending out repulsion vibes, but are either too lost in self pity , bitterness, anger, or a combination of all to see it in yourselves.

    If you perceive yourselves to be unworthy, then you will only attract those that want to abuse you or remain alone which might be what you need? Maybe some alone time, self reflection, therapy? spiritual counseling is needed? I don’t know. I’m just saying, anger, self loathing and those who name call, will usually only be attractive to other people who do the same. So don’t expect “perfection” (shouldn’t anyway, because it doesn’t exist). Like attracts like.

    From my own people watching, and being in a lot of clubs and other social settings due to my work, I see all kinds of people of varying shapes, sizes and looks in happy relationships. And the only thing consistent about all these people were they were good with themselves (ie. confident, not arrogant or cocky), and so they attract other people who are also good with themselves. Happy in spite of, or maybe because of, the hand they were dealt. Life isn’t fair. Not all of us are dealt a “winning hand”, but even poker players win big pots on crap hands. I could go on and on about the hand I was dealt, and at one point in my life, I did. And you know where it got me? Either nowhere, or in relationships with people who took advantage of my “poor me” attitude. Things only changed for the better, when I stop pointing the finger of blame at my external world and started looking at how I was reacting to the people and situations in my external world.

    Stop trying to force people through guilt and shame to change what they like in a mate. It’s not attractive and doesn’t work. Especially, when the big elephant in the room is, that you all have your “preferences” and they too are (just like height) things people can’t change (and shouldn’t have to change through plastic surgery…..cause if you wanna go there, there ARE surgeries out there that lengthen legs….painful, but so is any plastic surgery), like their skin colour, facial features, hair type leg length, etc. And trying to make yourselves the “winners” of who has it worse, by not living it but only denying the pain they many very tall women go through, is just so petty. Some of these women do get called some of the worst things I have ever heard. I’ve been witness to it; doesn’t make your pain any less or more than theirs. Stop trying to quantify pain. This notion that you want to win at being the worst off group is soooooo unattractive. All of you with these image issues: get help. Like AA, and I don’t mean the 12 step cult. I mean an Attitude Adjustment.

    Wow, I am so glad I had your presidential debate to watch while reading these mostly, horrible self pitying comments. Save for the blog owner, and maybe one or two other posters, not that many of you are as high minded or “not in denial” or “not lacking in confidence” as you think.

    The only way to “possibly” change a potential mate’s criteria is to just be the best possible you that you can be. It’s no guarantee, because LIFE ISN’T FAIR. Accept it and adapt to your situation. Whining, and attacking people for what they like, won’t change a thing. In fact, it’s more likely to reinforce those criteria.

    • Feet still touching the ground says:

      @ everyone

      __On reinforcing a criterion__
      Like any irrational prejudice, the behaviour is self-promoting. Those who are so entrenched in heightism to the point of posting a height restriction will just see those they see as unworthy in a negative light. It’s a prejudice. That’s how a prejudice works. They don’t need reinforcement to do this.

      Prejudice: It’s like reading an entire thread and responding to comments that never occurred (like mysteriously seeing some poster calling another “shallow” in long posts and criticizing it); or claiming that carefully cited facts have no evidence. The afflicted see what they WANT to see, even if it is clearly not the truth.
      .
      .
      .
      __Specific Answers__

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      Whoa. Lot of hateful things said from men and women! Starting with the first guy, who sounds like an internally homophobic closeted gay guy, because dude, it’s pretty clear, you hate women.

      Response:
      That’s purely ad hominem, and an ironically appropriate introduction to a response that has little basis in “fact” and really only serves to bring in the usual dismissals and attempts at shaming the plaintiffs.

      Don’t think so? Read on.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      And for one of the posters (same guy, different handle? Or just two very long winded posters? And yes, I admit this is a long post, but likely my only one) who answers point by point and who incessantly keeps calling one of the tall girls “shallow”. Uh, where’s your “evidence” for that? That is an opinion. Who gets to determine what is and isn’t “shallow”? There’s no statement of fact being made. It’s an opinion. If you want to be accurate, then say that “in my opinion you are shallow.” You”re entitled to an opinion, but stop trying to pass it off as a fact. It could be the opinion of everyone here, but it still doesn’t make it fact.

      Response:
      Which poster would that be? I am one of the few who takes to time to respond, as you say, “point by point”, yet I have not stated or implied that any particular poster was being shallow. In fact, in my entire contribution I have not even used the word in that context (save for here in response to this dubious claim.)

      As far as other posters who have spoken on behalf of shorter than average men, they have usually supported any claims of shallowness levied.

      You are correct: Merely stating an opinion does not make things “fact”. However, going a step further in inventing falsehoods to support your “opinion” is far more incredulous. ROFL. Please.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      I think he’s the same guy who wrongly claimed that you don’t see men, not even “gay men” put such restrictions in their personal ads. Such disingenuous “malarkey” as your veep would say. (I’m not American, nor a gay guy, either) I have read some of these ads and gay men and men in general DO very much discriminate in their personal ads….so enough with the holier than thou sH*t.. Don’t pretend you’ve read a lot of ads by men, when it’s clear you haven’t.

      Response:
      I am that that same guy (even if this is really just an attempt at a parroting attack) but…

      Where does any poster state or imply that “not even gay men put such restrictions in their personal ads”? I have searched this thread and have been unable to find this.

      Even it were so (that gay men have such restrictions), this does not mitigate the social tort (that of discriminating against shorter than average men) in the online dating world. The “fact” is that it’s pretty easy to find “must be average height or taller” in a notable amount of online ads from women seeking men. Your comments are just the usual attempt to obscure that.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      And then there’s this other pseudo “high road poster” who cuts down another woman for not attacking the post but instead attacking the poster, She *was* way off base, But then he claims the high ground by only attacking the post but then goes on to hypocritically call one of the tall women a “b****” and a “c***”. Nice. And so attractive. Yuck.

      Response:
      Interesting. The poster(s) that use the words “b****” and “c***” (yes, it is “assumed” that they are the ones that rhyme with itch and punt) are Ila, Tall Girl, Irena, etc. She (or they) seem to use these words frequently too. The case that “political junkie” is yet another avatar of the same poster is starting to coalesce.

      If I recall, I was one of the posters who mentioned how some choose to attack the poster and not the post. I have not gone on to call any one by those derogatory terms. Few other posters who have noted the ad hominem of the heightist camp have resorted to these words. It is likely this criticism is biased.

      Tallgirl was first to use these words in close proximity in this post (Jan 31, 2012). Curiously, she also incorrectly presumed that someone else called her this.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      To the women who are using derogatory remarks about men who are under a certain height: you are as unattractive as the whiners and the “poor me, poor me, I am so short, and all women are evil and life is not fair” types. You’re all sending out repulsion vibes, but are either too lost in self pity , bitterness, anger, or a combination of all to see it in yourselves.

      Response:
      It is common for the heightist to eventually resort to the typical name calling of “whiner” whenever this issue is discussed. The opposition is then falsely accused of claiming, “ALL women are evil”. The __TRUTH__ is that intolerance to less-than-average height men (in respects to dating) is a consequence of low self-esteem and immaturity. That is it. Exaggerating that to mean “all women are evil” is intentional hyperbole.

      It’s already been mentioned that shorter than average men are not looking for pity. In fact, most marginalized groups aren’t looking for any special treatment whatsoever. They just want to be part of the mainstream. Apparently, some find this hard to accept.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      If you perceive yourselves to be unworthy, then you will only attract those that want to abuse you or remain alone which might be what you need? Maybe some alone time, self reflection, therapy? spiritual counseling is needed? I don’t know. I’m just saying, anger, self loathing and those who name call, will usually only be attractive to other people who do the same. So don’t expect “perfection” (shouldn’t anyway, because it doesn’t exist). Like attracts like.

      Response:
      Come now. This is just beating the same old straw man. There may be some exceptions, but shorter than average men DO NOT see themselves as unworthy. In fact (there’s that word again, LOL), it is the restrictor that sees them as “unworthy”. There is NO self-loathing involved. You can stop “blaming the victim” anytime you like.

      Who is expecting perfection? Everyone just likes to be judged on things they do on their own volition. Does the concept of “prejudice” really need explanation?

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      From my own people watching, and being in a lot of clubs and other social settings due to my work, I see all kinds of people of varying shapes, sizes and looks in happy relationships. And the only thing consistent about all these people were they were good with themselves (ie. confident, not arrogant or cocky), and so they attract other people who are also good with themselves. Happy in spite of, or maybe because of, the hand they were dealt. Life isn’t fair. Not all of us are dealt a “winning hand”, but even poker players win big pots on crap hands. I could go on and on about the hand I was dealt, and at one point in my life, I did. And you know where it got me? Either nowhere, or in relationships with people who took advantage of my “poor me” attitude. Things only changed for the better, when I stop pointing the finger of blame at my external world and started looking at how I was reacting to the people and situations in my external world.

      Response:
      In essence, this is just trying to shame anyone who speaks out against a social tort as only being obsessed with a perceived “fault”. This is wrong on several levels.

      First of all, how the trait of being shorter than average really is no bearing on what a man can personally achieve has already been covered. It’s the socially influenced negative view of the observer that is the issue. It is this that many here choose to educate the masses on.

      Secondly, making an effort to expose this behaviour is not to be misconstrued as a petition for pity. If there were no negative impact, why would any one take issue? Have a look at the thread. You will see that it is usually the I-hate-you-all avatars that continually play the “pity” card.

      Thirdly, and most importantly, these discussions are about __the intolerant behaviour of heightists__. They are NOT about the fictional “woe is me, nobody loves me” of the marginalized. This notion is the purposeful misconception of those who want to shut down any discussion on this.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      Stop trying to force people through guilt and shame to change what they like in a mate. It’s not attractive and doesn’t work.

      Response:
      This is a discussion that exposes the immaturity that drives a prejudice. It is __NOT__ a bunch of guys trying to guilt or shame anyone into anything (The only shaming being attempting is when some call others “whiners” for discussing this topic).

      As has been mentioned, zealots are usually the ones that think someone is trying to change their minds (in their world, it’s “all about them”). The truth is that discussion exposes the not so pretty truth about the dysfunction. To that end, some will continue to attempt to discourage anyone from speaking out.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      Especially, when the big elephant in the room is, that you all have your “preferences” and they too are (just like height) things people can’t change (and shouldn’t have to change through plastic surgery…..cause if you wanna go there, there ARE surgeries out there that lengthen legs….painful, but so is any plastic surgery), like their skin colour, facial features, hair type leg length, etc.

      Response:
      Lol. It always comes back to this logical fallacy of “Tu quoque” (you do it too.)

      As before, it is not even aptly applied. Most men do not have deal breakers that involve physical traits that are immutable, involuntary and have no direct bearing on ones abilities. In fact, the height __REQUIREMENT__ stands alone in it’s haughty application.

      Do we see skin colour, facial features, hair type etc __RESTRICTIONS__ in the frequency we see HEIGHT? Until any critic can provide some evidence of such equivalency, this is just the usual dismissal of heightism as “just another tort”.

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      And trying to make yourselves the “winners” of who has it worse, by not living it but only denying the pain they many very tall women go through, is just so petty. Some of these women do get called some of the worst things I have ever heard. I’ve been witness to it; doesn’t make your pain any less or more than theirs. Stop trying to quantify pain. This notion that you want to win at being the worst off group is soooooo unattractive. All of you with these image issues: get help. Like AA, and I don’t mean the 12 step cult. I mean an Attitude Adjustment.

      Response:
      “Just Petty” As expected: Same agenda, same words. Ila-mass-ina. ROFL.

      No one is trying to deny the “pain” that many very tall women go through. However, in the CONTEXT of this discussion, it was pointed out that constantly diverting this discussion with the plight of another marginalized group was just hijacking. When the stories of each subsequent avatar became more and more dubious, it was obvious that some were not here to help the situation.

      There is no contest to be in the most pain. You may take down that straw man.

      Speaking of quantification. The fact (yes, it is fact) that there are a lot more “must be this tall to contact me” restrictions on online ads from women than “must not be taller than this” from men __IS__ easy to observe and quantify.

      Self Help? I wonder if there is self-help for those that create avatar after avatar in attempts to derail a discussion that they apparently don’t think merits any webspace?

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      Wow, I am so glad I had your presidential debate to watch while reading these mostly, horrible self pitying comments. Save for the blog owner, and maybe one or two other posters, not that many of you are as high minded or “not in denial” or “not lacking in confidence” as you think.

      Response:
      Lol. Still attacking the poster and not the posts. You are welcome to your opinion regardless of their lack of support (was that an opinion? rofl)

      political junkie says:
      October 17, 2012 at 4:13 am
      The only way to “possibly” change a potential mate’s criteria is to just be the best possible you that you can be. It’s no guarantee, because LIFE ISN’T FAIR. Accept it and adapt to your situation. Whining, and attacking people for what they like, won’t change a thing. In fact, it’s more likely to reinforce those criteria.

      Response:
      Once again, this is a straw man argument.

      No one is trying to “change the mind” of the heightist. However, most of those that speak out against the behaviour are exposing it for what it is. This is something that some take so much issue with that they will repeatedly attempt to shame others into silence (as in trying to guilt people into silence by calling them “whiners”.)

      Incidentally, it’s not about “what they like”. Heightism is all about “what they DON’T like to the point of exclusion”. Know the difference.

      .
      .
      .

      @ Everybody

      __On reinforcing a criterion__
      Like any irrational prejudice, the behaviour is self-promoting. Those who are so entrenched in heightism to the point of posting a height restriction will just see those they see as unworthy in a negative light. It’s a prejudice. That’s how a prejudice works. They don’t need reinforcement to do this.

      Prejudice: It’s like reading an entire thread and responding to comments that never occurred (like mysteriously seeing some poster calling another “shallow” in long posts and criticizing it); or claiming that carefully cited facts have no evidence. The afflicted see what they WANT to see, even if it is clearly not the truth.

    • Feet still touching the ground says:

      Correction (sorry the line should read):

      Response:
      I am __NOT__ that that same guy (even if this is really just an attempt at a parroting attack) but…

      and not:
      “I am that that same guy”

  108. Angus says:

    Being short is pretty much the worst thing that could happen to a man, as so many above me have stated.. not only are we short and that is a huge obstacle, but we have to give 110% to women ALL THE TIME..and even if we do SOMEHOW maintain that inhuman output.. 50% of the time she will leave for a taller guy anyway… so we have anger issues on top of being small…. but the real problems are stemming from the fact.. that really tall guys want really short girls… girls always want to go taller.. thats fine… but when the tallest guy and the shortest girl get together.. that fucks up the ratios on both ends of the spectrum e.i. the taller girl should have gotten with the tallest guy, and the shortest girl should get with a guy thats 1 or 2 inches taller… that way everything in between can even out and everyone wins ( or at least has a shot in hell).. but no… all the short girls go for the tall guys… so the tall girls cant have the tall guys and they definitely dont want a short guy……..
    ( and if anyone has yet to notice, the only people who do not have a say in these matters, are the short guys)… Im 5’3 without shoes on.. i cant get a date.. ive literally given up already.. Im not trying to sway anyones preference or opinion.. however the only point i would like to make…. is if the tall guy and the short girl keep getting together.. and keep reproducing.. their kids should even out and hopefully one day we will all be short.. and ill rule this fuckin world… bitch

    p.s dont be a smart ass and comment on my grammer or puncuation… am i getting a grade for this? i think not so keep that shit yourself

  109. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on cheese curds.
    Regards

  110. fact comment says:

    Even when a below average height man breaks through with women in a big way (like Tom Cruise who is 5’7″) they always shoot the film so he looks taller than the women in the movie. Why? Because women won’t buy a ticket to see a movie where the hero is 1 inch shorter than the lead actress.

  111. I know a short balding ugly guy with glasses that get hot girls all the time because of his extreme confidence and swag. He looks like the guy from seinfeld.
    Just be confident!

  112. 66quote99 says:

    Only people with self-image issues hate on short guys. Really. Read this blog and see the truth.

  113. devil's_advocate says:

    Interesting thread. But I have to wonder what people say about men (specifically white men, both short and tall) who won’t date certain races, specifically black women. Like short men, black women too tend to get ignored by men in general when it comes to dating, especially online dating. I bet there are many short white men who are upset about being passed over for their height (a trait they have no control over), but also make restrictions on others based on race (a trait no one has control over)! Perhaps I am wrong? Is this racism or just a “preference.” Like a “preference” for height or is it heightism?

    • Bruce says:

      Its called “racist”….yea, yea, I know…they just aren’t “into” women of color….but WHY that is, has its roots in the same place as racism. Personally, I love women of color or other ethnicities…not only because of their appearance, but the fact that they aren’t messed up, suppressed white women. (ok, maybe I’m racist against white women.)

  114. kofybean says:

    Why do men have to compensate for who they are?

  115. Terrence Kwasha says:

    I have an IQ 3-4 standard deviations over any guy you are going to meet. I have martial arts training and have a ridiculously high pain tolerance and have never lost a fight. I have a net worth probably 100 times of the 6’4″ floppy eared moron you are going to meet in a bar, and probably make 100 times what he does in a year. I have an above average penis size, and know guys over 6′ with 1 inch penises due to medication side effects or just random variance.

    Height bias isn’t based on anything other than a glitch in human reasoning where it used to matter before we became intelligent and started using tools. Your tall guy can reach bananas on higher branches…. Good job! I am better than him in every other possible way.

    Furthermore, girls who are over 5′ 10″ themselves care much less than girls who are below 5’4″. I’m 5’8 and have dated many girls taller than me, it’s only the tiny girls that are so insecure about not having a presence themselves that want to date really tall guys.

    But in reality being tall doesn’t mean anything, most tall guys I know have blue collar jobs and adapt personalities that revolve around preserving people’s superficial belief that they are some how leader material. IE They don’t say anything unique or interesting, they don’t teach you things you didn’t already know, they aren’t witty, they just use passive aggressive behavior and sarcasm as if to imply there was something they could say but conveniently couldn’t be bothered to tell what it is (because they know they are gonna end up looking stupid)

    It’s the 21st century, IQ matters not height.

    • Bruce says:

      Actually, the reason height is of overstated importance these days is because of our “humanistic” society…ie, we can’t just kill off people who are inferior to us. In former days, the alpha male, was an ALPHA male, not someone who just looked liked they where an alpha male. If you look at Alphas in the animal world, they aren’t always the tallest/biggest, just the best.

  116. ffffffd says:

    Im done with life, seems like everything has to be perfect in everyones eyes. been bullied since pre K and am entering high school. tired of being picked on because ofy height this society is just stupid and im done. Thienking of how suicide is lik

  117. Confused Ryu says:

    I just found out that I’m really only 5’3″. I guess that answers why nobody is looking at me. I always thought that confidence,intelligence, and great sense of humor was the winning combination to attracting women. I never got the memo about height.

    I’m not rich or even well off, but I have a job and I survive. All I’ve ever wanted was a little companionship from someone that I can enjoy being with. Even that little bit seems to be asking too much. Sometimes I tend to wonder why should I want a woman if no decent,desirable woman wants me.

    I spent the last 18 years of my life running, and I’m supposed to settle for a couch potato, because any woman I desire will think my height is a problem. I’ve never been about slamming people who are overweight, but why should I have to settle if nobody else will settle? I swear the whole game is rigged against me from the start. Being with me shouldn’t be seen as settling.

    I remember reading another forum where one user stated the best comment I’ve ever heard about us short guys.

    “All the confidence in the world isn’t going to make the women that want taller guys disappear”.

    So with the above statement this means that my existence essentially has ZERO value to most women. How does a person continue move forward with that thought in mind?

  118. Anonymous says:

    women HATE short men. i have noticed this y whole life. they don’t just dislike them, they are openly disgusted and repulsed by them. women will date fat men, blind men, and even disabled men before they date a short man. and NOTHING can compensate for being short, not even money. if you’re a man under 5’6, you will never, ever, EVER get laid. period. you may as well just accept that you will be alone forever or kill yourself now to save yourself the pain.

  119. Just some dude says:

    My best advice for short men on online dating? Get off. I say this a man that is 5’7″ and can’t get the time of day from women on online dating. So F*ck It! Do something else. I’m a highly successful professional that is active and is good shape. If the vast majority of women on online dating automatically dismiss guys like me because of something as shallow and arbitrary as my height then it just ain’t worth my time. So to Hell with it. You can have your vapid, shallow world of online dating and wait for that elusive unicorn to come prancing into your life. But for me, who lives in the real world, I’ve got better things to do with my time. I suspect many other men, short or otherwise, feel the same.

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